Farouk, Furiosi, and the Final Solution to the Muslim Problem
My biggest problem with the old Reform Party was that I could never tell what they really wanted. They swept into Ottawa in 1993 in a state of exultant, self-righteous Western rage, and told us emphatically what they didn’t like – liberalsocialisticommies, Trudeau, taxes, gays, Injuns, Quebec, regulation, Ontario, abortion, Mulroney. But there was no consistent platform or vision driving the Party; just post-NEP hatred for Eastern Canada, and the surly truculence of a spoiled teenager who feels unappreciated – and who just bought a gun.
I’m getting the same feeling reading “conservative” bloggers and commenters on the failed bombing attempt by Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. At the extremes we have the predictable gamut, from Scenty’s psychotic assertion that this is an Obama plot to calls for banning Muslims from flying. But the undercurrent from the Furiosi is consistent: We TOLD you that Muslims are Evil, and We’ve Gotta Do Something About Them.
What I haven’t seen so far is a “conservative” commentator who has calmly, rationally set out what the Furiosi plan to “deal” with the Allah Peril should be. Lots of panic and lots of snarling, but no honest admission of what they’d actually like to see happen. I’ve been wondering if someone, somewhere, has stated explicitly what they feel Canada should do about its Muslim Problem.
Kathy Shaidle may have come closest. Her prescription is clear and simple: “Stop Muslim immigration to Canada, then start the deportation process.”
That simple program seems to sum up what the McMillans and Lemaires and Sentinels and Stubble Jumpers and Curries and Neos are hoping for. This is a historic moment, as it marks the first clear articulation of the Solution I’ve seen, and I think we should be grateful to Shaidle for explicitly putting the option on the table for debate. I have immortalized the occasion with a screenshot, and urge other contemporary history buffs to do the same.
Unfortunately, her blog doesn’t allow for discussion. So I’ll open the debate here, and perhaps someone would be obliging enough to elaborate on the Program for us. I’m curious about a couple of points.
How would you define a “Muslim“? I assume by applying the same standards I’ve seen Shaidle, Steyn and others apply to that well known Islamist jihadi Mark Lepine: in other words, anyone with one Muslim parent, even an absentee one, is a Muslim. It doesn’t matter whether or not you profess or practice the religion, or which branch of Islam you practice.
Would the Deportations involve all Muslims? I assume yes, since we’re planning to ban all Muslims from immigrating – that suggests that we’d want to get rid of the ones that are already here. I am assuming it doesn’t matter whether you were born in Canada or not.
What sort of legal framework would allow you to deport all Muslims, including Canadian citizens? Presumably a new set of laws will be required to deal with the Muslim Problem. You’d have to strip them of their citizenship, and perhaps forbid them to hold certain jobs, and/or eliminate their right to own property. That could work: it would certainly increase their incentive to emigrate voluntarily, or comply with the Deportation.
How would you deal with non-compliance? Several interesting Solutions occur to me, but I’d rather hear suggestions from the proponents.
Can we expand the scope of our Program to other groups? After all, actual incidents of lethal terrorism in Canada have never involved Muslims – they’ve allegedly been committed by Sikhs and Quebecers. The latter pose an interesting challenge in terms of deportation, but that’s a detail. Plus there’s the problem of non-Muslim but similar LOOKING terrorists like Saddam Hussein. Should the Program include a rider that incorporates secular Arabs and Pakistanis and other swarthy types with strange headgear, if deemed a threat?
So how about it? Come on, Furiosi Friends, stop fuming in the shadows. Take your lead from Shaidle and set out honestly, clearly and specifically how you think Canada should deal with its Muslim Problem.
No links to the various sites? I know, it’s not like we want to give them too much extra traffic.. but it comes in handy when one wants to take a screenshot of their rantings for safekeeping.
Sigh. If you insist.
@balbulican – By the way, Shaidle seems to be forgetting that the Constitution and specifically the Charter of Rights forbid the deportation part of her scheme, if she wants to deport Muslims who are Canadian citizens. .. and the section that deals with that – Section 6 – is not subject to the “notwithstanding” clause that Parliament or a provincial legislature can try to use to override certain sections.
Well, we’ll just have to change the laws a little bit, won’t we?
What you fail to appreciate, Scott, is that when Canada – no, make that Western Civilization – is faced with a clear and immediate threat to its survival, the old rules and principles just don’t apply any longer.
@balbulican I know we’re being slightly facetious here, but good luck to Shaidle if she thinks she can a) get a federal government – even a Conservative one in its current right-wing incarnation- to go along with the deporting part of her plan.. and b) to get 7 out of 10 provinces with 75% of the population to agree to amend the Charter to allow the feds to do that.
I suspect this is more just Shaidle putting down on a blog what her ultimate fantasy would be, rather then her expecting that it would come to fruition. I’ll be very surprised if she comes up with any answer to your questions about how her pogrom.. er.. “program” would work.
It is very encouraging that the Blogging Tories participants are supporting the demonstrators in Iran. This will probably continue until the Iranians become free Muslims (and others). Then, the BTers will believe that these free Muslims will become part of the evil Mooslim empire.
I think the important question is, could we use this deportation program to throw Shaidle out of the country?
Scott: Shaidle is just a blogger trying to make a living peddling herself as a cut-rate Canuck Coulter in a competitive and shrinking market. Like Coulter, she has to periodically say something Ooh, Just SO Outrageous to keep the brand alive and her readers’ wattles quivering. She’s a political lightweight, with no “program” beyond her own bottomless resentment.
And that’s the point of the post. The Furiosi are fond of proposing real world, punitive solutions to deal with the people and things that annoy them, without thinking through what it would actually mean – legally, socially, philosophically – to extradite Muslims or ban burkhas or torture terrorist suspects or any of the other charming programs they periodically propose in a fit of pique.
The conservative answer is simple b, search them all then put them on a separate plane.
One jolly commenter proposed that every time an Islamist was apprehended with a bomb on an airline, three mosques in the Arab world should be blown up. He/she did not specify whether the mosques should be full or empty, or who would be mandated to carry out the massacres, but it did shed interesting light on the moral mindset of some folks.
There’s an obvious answer to the “question” surrounding those Muslims who reside here legally:
For their own protection, they could be encouraged to relocate to “camps” for protection. These camps could then, in turn, help the Canadian economy. After all, Arbeit macht frei, ja?
Intriguing questions about Der Ewige Moslem.
Perhaps we could, on some prearranged signal, break the windows of all shawarma places to let these Muslims know that the citizenry is aroused by their very presence in our society. Then we could make them wear yellow crescents, and eventually send these lazy, unproductive criminals to large and well-guarded industrial parks to learn how to work for a change, like real Canadians do.
Deportation is an interesting option–I have heard Zanzibar mentioned–but that is only forestalling the inevitable, and giving these aliens the ability to re-group. I am presently working on another solution to the Muslim problem, which will have to remain a secret for now: the people are not ready.
The notions of camps is an intriguing one. On the positive side, they offer the opportunity for re-education; and at the very least, they allow us to contain the problem, and provide a strong incentive for voluntary emigration.
A.H. raises an interesting problem, though. By forcing Muslims out of the country, we run the risk of simply fanning the flames. We know that there exists a secret international conspiracy to destroy all we hold sacred, well funded by Arab millionaires. What purpose is served by swelling their ranks with recent malcontents expelled by justifiably cautious Canadians?
So we have them in camps, but we don’t necessary want to ship them abroad. Hmm. That IS a poser.
Come on, Furiosi Friends, stop fuming in the shadows. Take your lead from Shaidle and set out honestly, clearly and specifically how you think Canada should deal with its Muslim Problem.
No takers so far, eh?
If the proto-genocidal Shaidle lands anywhere on TVOntario again, there’s going to be hell to pay. In fact, someone (like the producer of the last edition of The Agenda on which she appeared, Meredith Martin) needs to be fired retroactively.
Shaidle is insane. She should not be taken seriously.
Kathy Shaidle’s post suggests that she has consciously and permanently given up any hope of ever working for an employer not directly linked to Stormfront, running for political office (including a local school board), or appearing in media in any role other than in the token “…representing Right Wing Lunatic corner, we have…” slot.
Good. Save that screen shot.
She should probably give up hope of ever travelling on a plane again, since a person so obviously not lucid who threatens to attack passengers should be put on a no-fly list.
As I stick to this blogging thing, I find that I am less and less concerned about what Shaidle and her like are up to. They are just “look at me, look at me, am I daring or what” political narcissists. I’m far more concerned how their drones think and act–you know, the ones that gave us the Harper government.
Borrowing a leaf from their own playbook, it’s up to us to start demanding that the old, humane, civilized conservatives denounce this rat-pack. Not every Blogging Tory is a moron, but most of them seem afflicted with a kind of moral cowardice that doesn’t permit them to speak out. “Pas d’ennemis à droite”, I guess, but it’s getting kind of raunchy in that part of town recently, and unsafe for decent folks.
it’s up to us to start demanding that the old, humane, civilized conservatives denounce this rat-pack.
And who are they again?
I’m afraid the only recourse is fighting fire with fire. I don’t think appeals to decency are going to work.
Let’s be reasonable, we can’t deport all Muslims, we have to keep the doctors as our health system would collapse otherwise, at least in NB. Besides, my occasional doctor is a real cute Muslim, scarf and all.
Hey, dude, talk to Shaidle. It’s her plan, not mine.
New Brunswick has a health care system?
@Ti-Guy –
ha ha. I detect the sarcasm.
@Ti-Guy: Yes they do — but the hospital is in a small, out of the way, community named Waterville where there’s no airport and no public transit (heck, there’s not even a general store there anymore) so most people don’t know it exists….. I only know because I drove by it this summer.
ha ha. I detect the sarcasm.
*Phew*, Good thing you didn’t detect my subtle attempt to undermine the province of New Brunswick, whose Acadian version of Kosovo, along with Northern Ontario (Montenegro?), I’m hoping will break away from this oppressive federalist, capitalist, canuckist regime to join Québec in recreating the one, original and true Canada.
“What I haven’t seen so far is a ‘conservative’ commentator who has calmly, rationally set out what the Furiosi plan to ‘deal’ with the Allah Peril should be.”
It’s actually rather simple.
First, recognize that it isn’t an “Allah peril”.
Then recognize that it requires a multi-faceted response.
Much of that will rest on doing a lot of what is already being done: maintain the proper levels of security at points of vulnerability (including, but not limited to, airports).
But, more importantly, conduct your threat assessments. When you receive a tip, take it seriously.
Act early on threats so they can be averted with a minimum of violence and minimal risk of collateral damage. These individuals can be apprehended quietly, without harm to themselves or to others if they’re investigated and identified early enough. In cases like this, due cause is actually rather abundant.
Moreover, recognize, support and protect moderate assets in the Muslim world. Benazir Bhutto’s assassination wasn’t merely a severe setback for Pakistan. It was a setback for the world at large.
Beyond that, the logic at the center of Canadian Sentinel’s insinuation that Obama knew about the attack may be spurious, but I’ll remind you that we’ve seen it before. Michael Moore used the same logic to insinuate that George W Bush knew about 9/11 before it happened.
In Obama’s case, it was a warning from the terrorist’s father. In Bush’s case, it was some very unambiguously-titled intelligence reports. The same logic leads to Sentinel’s conclusions as led to Moore’s — and frankly, I haven’t seen very many denizens of the left lined up to denounce Mikey for that.
As for the notion of a broader “Allah threat”, we have to recognize the challenges of meeting the dangers posed by militant Islam. The biggest challenge is that, all too often, the perpetrators are not the impoverished and uneducated, as we had often been led to believe, but rather educated professionals. The individual responsible for the Christmas Day attempt is an engineer. The individuals who attacked a British airport a couple years ago with incendiary car bombs, as I recall, were doctors.
I’d say it’s actually only natural that some folks would think that putting the entire Muslim world in the penalty box is the intuitive solution. It’s based on an oversimplification of the matter, but it at least seems intuitive.
“First, recognize that it isn’t an “Allah peril”.”
I hate explaining jokes, but here goes. It’s a pun on “Yellah” Peril, the xenophobic anti-Chinese mania of the late nineteenth century.
“Then recognize that it requires a multi-faceted response…. … rather abundant.”
Yup. And in this section you’re addressing the threat at an appropriate level – security measures to prevent crime by members of a criminal conspiracy.
“Moreover, recognize, support and protect moderate assets in the Muslim world. Benazir Bhutto’s assassination wasn’t merely a severe setback for Pakistan. It was a setback for the world at large.”
No-one’s quite sure how Bhutto would have fit into the international puzzle – Western observers tend to vastly underestimate the complexity of Asian politics, and are constantly surprised when Asian nations refuse to conform to our relatively simple good guy/bad guy paradigms -but as a general principle, I agree. With the caveat, of course, that excessive friendliness with the West, and especially with the US, can alienate a Muslim leader from their popular base.
“Beyond that, the logic at the center of Canadian Sentinel’s insinuation that…… for that.”
Yup. Stupid conspiracy theories abound. You point ‘em out where you see ‘em, and I’ll do the same.
“As for the notion of a broader “Allah threat”, w…… intuitive.”
Yup. It’s natural. Nothing’s more “natural” than fear of the other tribe. Unfortunately, it’s an atavism I don’t think our species can afford anymore.
There are two things I am trying to do here behind the mocking tone of the post, Patrick.
a) point out to those who haven’t thought it through the logical consequences of allowing this particular mindset to fester unexamined. Those consequences are illustrated in the apparently satirical questions that follow the body of the post,
b) see if any of the folks who seem to advocate screening or extraditing Muslims en masse are prepared to defend and explain that position.
Moreover, recognize, support and protect moderate assets in the Muslim world
Moderate assets? High praise, indeed. Sounds like a farm team we threaten to call up if the first-stringers keep thwarting the coach.
Nothing’s more “natural” than fear of the other tribe
Especially one with access to tens of millions of petro-dollars and a large network of radicals with a penchant for blowing up planes. balb, while the image of La Shaidle festering and spreading like a slimey blob from an old Japanese sci-fi flic is indeed disturbing, may I remind you that one of the burdens of the free West is a small, but steady, supply of nasty nuts, but that for the most part they prove to be far less infectious than they hope and we fear? True, one can never be sure, but there are signs, and a relatively small gaggle of cyber-losers singing chorus is a very, very long way from Kristallnacht . Call me reckless, but until the lady puts on a para-military uniform and starts getting standing ovations in beer halls, I count her a poor counter-balance to overstated fears of Islamist terrorism.
I think both sides are guilty of ignoring those who should be the priority in these debates–Muslim Canadians. If there is a righteous fight against xenophobia to be waged, it is for them. It also has the added advantage of being something we can actually roll up our sleeves and do something about, rather than just criticize others for not doing. Much as I would like to rise above my no-longer affordable atavism in order to buy the Saudis a Coke and teach the Yemenis to sing, I simply can’t shake this misgiving that such should be a tit for tat endeavour, and that too many of them won’t play. I really do doubt whether more Western respect and non-interference in the name of social justice is going to change that much, espcially given that so many of them tell us openly it won’t. Nor, to be totally frank, would I see it as an offence against humanity if we aimed our immigration efforts at other countries, including Muslim ones like India and Indonesia. As for parents flying with their kids to visit family on the holidays, I think I understand why they worry more about whether the Nigerian dude sitting in 8E plans to bring the plane down than on working out a long term global strategy to make the lion lie down with the lamb.
“Sounds like a farm team we threaten to call up if the first-stringers keep thwarting the coach.”
Shrug. It’s recognition that despite the fondest dreams of American patriots, they don’t actually run the world. Hard and soft diplomacy enter into it. More Egypts, fewer Irans.
“True, one can never be sure, but there are signs, and a relatively small gaggle of cyber-losers singing chorus is a very, very long way from Kristallnacht.”
Yup. And I’m delighted to play a modest part in maintaining and increasing that distance.
“I think both sides are guilty of ignoring those who should be the priority in these debates–Muslim Canadians. If there is a righteous fight against xenophobia to be waged, it is for them.”
And do you think that calls for their extradition (a) increase or (b) diminish the likelihood of such engagement?
” It also has the added advantage o… …it won’t.”
You seem to be covering a few different bases here, and I’m not sure how they connect – the obligation of Muslim Canadian, soft diplomacy, Saudi and Yemeni collaboration in anti-terrorism action…can you connect those threads to the utility, or otherwise, of Muslim extradition?
“As for parents flying with their kids to visit family on the holidays, I think I understand why they worry more about whether the Nigerian dude sitting in 8E plans to bring the plane down than on working out a long term global strategy to make the lion lie down with the lamb.”
And do you view those two options – increasing security measures and undertaking a longer term strategy to increase collaboration and cooperation with Muslim countries – as mutually exclusive?
And do you view those two options – increasing security measures and undertaking a longer term strategy to increase collaboration and cooperation with Muslim countries – as mutually exclusive?
While the plane is descending, pretty much. We are nudging up against one of the true fault lines between the progressive and and conservative views of life and history. You think it gets better over time, we think it’s a matter of cycles of increasing ranges. Hence those studies that show conservatives tend to be more fearful. It’s not visceral ignorance or superstition, we really, really think there is more to be fearful about. I confess I once thought radical Islamism would have taught the left that the promise of the Enlightenment was a dangerous myth, but I suppose if you can still believe in it after the slaughters of the 20th century, bin Laden isn’t going to change much.
can you connect those threads to the utility, or otherwise, of Muslim extradition?
I’m rather proud that I can’t and a tad insulted you thought I might try.
Peter’s sucking the oxygen out of the room again.
*gasp*
“More Egypts, fewer Irans.”
Another statement that seems intuitive, but this is also in error.
When one compares the nature of the militant ideology that emerged out of Egypt, compared to the one that emerged out of Iran, the case seems pretty conclusive that the former has been more destructive than the latter — at least on a global scale.
Sure, the Iranians took some hostages, and there was that whole Contra affair, but the Iranian version of militant Islam has done the vast majority of its damage within the borders of Iran. It’s sad, but compare that to the damage done by Sayyid Qutb, and where that damage has been done.
Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, the Sudan, Saudi Arabia…
As perverse as it feels to say this, we should actually be hoping for fewer Egypts and more Irans. At least with Iran, they mostly just hurt themselves and their own countrymen, as opposed to other people.
Patrick, I am talking about Egypt, the political entity, and its foreign policy.
Fair enough, in that particular regard.
But unfortunately, we really can’t drop that particular thread right there. There is the matter of the way the Egyptian regime responded to Qutb, with a brutal repression, right up to and including that magical word, “torture”.
The Egyptian regime’s suppression of Qutb and his followers further radicalized that particular ideological movement, and provided the first pretexts for militant action against any Muslim states that were judged to be too impure to be tolerated by Qutb’s “good Muslims”.
So, true enough. The ideology that Qutb spawned was of his own creation. But the Egyptian state did their fair share to further radicalize it, even if unintentionally.
Why don’t we just ask the Canadians of Japanese ancestry what should be done? I’m sure they might have an idea or two.
Good idea, Frank. Or the Irish. Or the Italians. Or the Chinese. Or the Jews. Or any of the other waves of immigrants whose arrival was thought to portend The End of Civilization As We Know It.
Unfortunately the US and Canada didn’t have Jason Kenney in those days. Otherwise those damned wops and micks and chinks and kikes would never have got their feet in the door and ruined the country.
Don’t forget the krauts. Shaidle’s a German name, by the way.
…jeeze, now I’m torn.
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