One Step Forward, Five Steps Back: “The Politic” Sucks Once Again.
Once upon a time I used to scan “The Politic” as part of my “check out the crazies” daily blogroutine, where it occupied a niche somewhere above Scenty and below Shaidle in terms of its loony amusement value. I stopped eventually – its dreary, predictable ideologues and occasional flashes of virulent racism and homophobia weren’t weird enough to be funny, or smart enough to be interesting.
But over the past couple of months I restored “The Politic” to my list of daily reads. There were at least two new contributors who were writing insightful and very interesting pieces – posts that actually diverged from the Conservative party line, and a series of funny, irreverent interviews with pundits and politicians from across the political spectrum. As is usually the case, intelligent posters were beginning to attract intelligent comments: some good discussions were happening. I was enjoying the site, and I said so here.
Well, they’ve blown it again.
Paleochristian Mattew Campbell (best known for editing comments to replace a lower case “g” with an upper case “G” when a writer refers to god) put up a post this morning in which he, like so many others this week, suggests that a Great Mask has been dropped, that the famous leaked emails are “absolutely damning”, and so on. Normal stuff from a conservative blogger who doesn’t understand science (Matthew, you will recall, has problems with that newfangled “evolution” thing.)
As part of this amusing fulmination, Matthew calls for “…some self-imposed regulation among the scientific community.”
I responded as follows (my emphases).
There is. It’s called the Scientific Method. It doesn’t stop errors or fraud from occurring (any more than canon or criminal law prevent priests from buggering altar boys or corrupt corporate executives from embezzlement), but the practice of peer review and the need for replication and falsifiability mean that fraud or errors are almost inevitably discovered and corrected.
I have to point out again that this issue is not about the science of climate change; no actual findings have been challenged or disproved. It’s about the perception and propaganda that surround the issue.
When I returned a couple of hours later to check for a response, the highlighted phrase had been edited out. There was no indication that Matthew had censored my response, and no explanation.
I asked whether this in fact had occurred, and Matthew responded:
balbuican [sic], your post was edited to remove a line that interferes with rule 5 of the posting rules (I made sure your main point is in tact [sic] though).
“Rule 5″ at The Politic is pretty straightforward. It states simply that ““Any messages that are deemed unsuitable will be deleted or edited.” Well, that’s – uh -certainly wide open.
Now, Matthew (who later refers to my response as “filth”), suggests that his edit left my point “in tact” (I wish I could credit him with the insight to perceive the irony in his typo). His self-important bowdlerization, however, deletes an essential point, which is that the “self-regulation” he pompously demands of science, doesn’t work in any other area of human endeavor. Science, at least, applies principles like peer review, replicability and falsifiability. Each of those checks can fail; together, they represent one of the best intellectual systems we as a species have developed to date for approaching “truth”: and they certainly represent a more rigorous system of “self-regulation” than anything in use in the Church or in business.
Within the last two days The Politic has allowed its commenters to suggest that Afghan detainees be executed upon capture. That was not deemed “unsuitable”. Over the years the site has hosted, unedited, some pretty vile comments about Muslims, gays, deserters, and all the usual right wing bugbears. These were not deemed “unsuitable”. However, a relevant and accurate statement (currently the subject of an apology from the Catholic Church in Ireland) was removed without acknowledgment and without explanation.
We don’t censor or edit our contributors at Stageleft. We support both free speech and freedom of expression. And I try not to participate in or support blogs of any political stripe that make a habit of editing their commenters, particularly when they do so without showing their cuts. To me, that epitomizes moral and intellectual cowardice in blogging.
I salute Greg Farries, who I sincerely believe was trying to drag The Politic out of its mire to something more valuable. And I tip my hat to Jonathan McLeod and Richard Albert, to whom I recommend a thoughtful meditation on the myth of Sisyphus.
As far as I’m concerned the definitive statement on this topic is by Peter Watts (http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=886) by way of antipope.og:
“The fact is, we are all humans; and humans come with dogma as standard equipment. We can no more shake off our biases than Liz Cheney could pay a compliment to Barack Obama. The best we can do– the best science can do– is make sure that at least, we get to choose among competing biases.
That’s how science works. It’s not a hippie love-in; it’s rugby. … Science is so powerful that it drags us kicking and screaming towards the truth despite our best efforts to avoid it. And it does that at least partly fueled by our pettiness and our rivalries. Science is alchemy: it turns shit into gold. Keep that in mind the next time some blogger decries the ill manners of a bunch of climate scientists under continual siege by forces with vastly deeper pockets and much louder megaphones.”
I don’t believe people who say they don’t believe in the science behind climate change. I think they’re lying.
Who is posting about this post. Why CC. The same guy who deletes my comments.
I do not comment often at stageleft, or agree with everything…but I enjoy the read.
“free speech and freedom of expression” are just words to a large portion of humanity, a real shame.
All the best balbuican.
Science should have absolutely nothing at all to do with belief sooey.
Hey balb (may I call you balb? And what’s with the lowercase leading b?),
I must say, I don’t really like talking about buggering altar boys, but I didn’t think your comment was worse than a lot of others. Greg’s the editor, so I’ll leave it to him to shape the rules, but I would be inclined to let your comment stand. At my personal blog, I tend not to edit comments (no big worry because I’ve had a total of about 10 in the last 8 months).
I haven’t had a chance to reflect on the Myth of Sisyphus, but the final lines, “[t]he struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy,” aptly describe many endeavours I have taken on in my life. I’ve reconciled myself to the likelihood that I will constantly be fighting a losing battle, but I won’t be content to give up the fight.
One final thought, I’m not going to get into a discussion here about anyone at ThePolitic. When I have issues with posts at ThePolitic I will (assuming I have time) address the specific post. I will also say that I have always found Greg to be fair and welcoming to a variety of perspectives. If the quality of discourse has deteriorated, that is too bad, and I will do my best to address that.
Cheers.
Sorry for the extra post, I forgot to click “Notify me…” on my previous comment.
Hey Wayne! Still the same piece of filth i see. What motivates you? Being bone-stupid or amoral and mercenary?
“I don’t really like talking about buggering altar boys.”
Nor do I, particularly. It made a point.
“I have always found Greg to be fair and welcoming to a variety of perspectives.”
That’s good. I’m interested to hear his followup on Matthew’s censorship. If he supports it as a matter of policy, then he may wish to consider changing the name of “The Politic” to “The Playpen”.
Blogging Tory Wayne bitches and whines:
“Who is posting about this post. Why CC. The same guy who deletes my comments.”
Shut up, Wayne. It’s pretty nervy for a Blogging Tory to be whinging on about having his comments occasionally deleted, given the ruthless, iron-fisted control the BTs exercise over their own blogs 24/7, expunging even the most civil and well-presented dissension.
Besides, you’ve had it explained to you on a number of occasions why I do that — it’s your annoying habit of opening a discussion by insulting the entire leftist demographic, then saying something hideously stupid, and finally being tediously repetitive long after others have explained your errors.
You don’t get deleted because I disagree with you, Wayne. You get deleted because, you’re unfunny, uninformative and unteachable. And you have your own blog so you’re more than welcome to be unfunny, uninformative and unteachable over there.
The Politic’s Jon writes:
“I will also say that I have always found Greg to be fair and welcoming to a variety of perspectives.”
Really? When did that happen?
I don’t believe people who say they’ve always found someone unfair to be fair. I think they’re lying.
@balb
Yes, you’re right about the comment. Although your point was still made, the examples demonstrating the universality of your point hit it home. And, certainly, there was nothing untrue about the examples (if I take you to mean some priests and some corporate execs).
By the way, I hope you keep us up to date on how this is resolved (assuming it is). I’d hate to lose you as a commenter at ThePolitic. (Though I’ll keep coming here regardless).
@CC
Thanks for the link. I don’t find the examples to be really damning of Greg. They seem to be more damning of other contributors to ThePolitic (but, since it is Greg’s site, he has to take some responsibility for what goes on there). I still think Greg is, generally, fair, but the way he handles this situation could affect that.
@sooey
Sadly, there’s probably nothing I can write to pry you from that belief. We’ll just have to see how everything plays out.
“you’ve had it explained to you on a number of occasions why I do that”
i explained it to him here, and he conceded the point. at the time, anyway….
KEvron
thwap and CC commenting on balbulican’s post and his legitimate claim of censorship. Now, you two are finally funny.
What do we get from the comments you made…… nothing but an “argumentum ad hominem” on me.
My shot at you CC, was right on target and consistent with the theme of balbulican’s post. CC/thwap, your attack on me was not.
Have I ever told either of you to shut up? Case closed.
Jon, I will let everyone know how this turns out. Silence so far, and I’m afraid the thread that started this all has developed a serious Mahmood infestation.
KEvron I took your comments to heart, and you were right. I let my “love of CC” get the better of me.
But, this time it was a fair shot. CC’s post about balbulican’s post was a cheap shot in my opinion.
I don’t believe you hold that opinion at all. I I think you’re lying.
I do hold that opinion sooey. What is it with you and all the lying accusations…. projection? thwap does the same thing.
Take a look at balbulican’s comment at CC’s on the idiot post. A funny and classy comment giving CC the same benefit of doubt as balbulican is giving “The Politic”.
KEvron’s link is the perfect example of why Wayne isn’t welcome around CC HQ anymore. Wayne’s very first comment in that thread involves him insulting the blog owner’s “left idiocy” and the “leftist idiocy” of her commenters. No attempt to intellectually engage anyone, just wide-sweeping insults.
KEvron correctly points out that, by the end of that thread, Wayne realizes what kind of utter douchebag he’s been, but my accusation of Wayne being unteachable is because he’s done this countless times in the past — he drops by, insults everyone, gets pounded, eventually realizes he’s been an ass, promises to be more civil in the future and goes away.
Until the next time he drops by, insults everyone in sight, get pounded, etc, etc. It never changes, and it’s why he’s deleted when he stops by my place. Which, unsurprisingly, inspires him to run around and accuse me of censorship without bothering to explain that it’s because he’s an insufferable ass.
Your “shot” at me, Wayne, is the same ignorant shit you’ve been spewing for years. People who censor you from their comments section do it for a simple reason — you’re an ass.
I don’t believe that thwap does the same thing. I think you’re lying.
sooey, that was funny, I just choked on my coffee.
“People who censor you from their comments section do it for a simple reason — you’re an ass.” thwap and CC are the only ones that have censored my comments.
My shot at you CC was a direct hit, keep talking; you’re going down faster than the titanic.
The blog owner’s idiocy remark was a typo, I meant CC’s blog and CC’s minions and their comments, but the damage was done. I feel really bad about that. CK puts a lot of thought into her posts and I let CC get the better of me. Besides…. she plays the piano like my god Harper, so she can’t be all that bad.
KEvron said I should give my honest opinion…. so I have. Both CC and thwap have nothing of substance to say on this issue, since they are just as guilty of censorship.
balbulican has always been civil and fair to me, that is all I can go by. I am more than a little angry that more people did not jump to his defense on CC’s blog. I do not understand that.
If you hang around you’ll discover we all do that
Long ago, and immediately before dropping ThePolitic from the blog roll, I had a discussion with Greg about that…. it didn’t go a long way – it’s his site, he can obviously do what he wants with it but I wouldn’t read or promote the tripe that was appearing there.
Bigotry, racism, and intolerance masked as Conservatism is still bigotry, racism, and intolerance.
You might also want to add something biblical to your reading list — that one about it being easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle…………. is probably appropriate for that sort of endevour.
so I have. Both CC and thwap have nothing of substance to say on this issue, since they are just as guilty of censorship.
I don’t be believe that true at all. Editing people’s comments is a lot worse than deleting them.
I would delete, but never edit. Unless I was out to make you look really bad, Wayne. That I would do in a heartbeat.
As CC has pointed out, your disruptive behaviour has gone on for years.
“Editing people’s comments is a lot worse than deleting them.” After thinking about that a bit, I agree with you Ti-Guy.
“bigotry, racism, and intolerance” as you know full well, is everywhere…. not just in conservative ranks, stageleft.
@Wayne: No Wayne, they are not everywhere – they are, for example, not here…. and, on the very odd occasion when they do show up we mock, ridicule, and insult them until they go away.
– and I never said they were in Conservative ranks, I said they were at ThePolitic masked as Conservatism where they were defended by the site owner, the site authors, and the readership who followed them. You should pay more attention.
Thanks for the clarification, I will pay closer attention.
And, precisely as I predicted back in comment 19, the Cycle of Wayne comes to a close with Wayne admitting that he’s been misrepresenting the issue and promising to be better at it in the future.
Check back in a month or two when Wayne, having learned nothing, does it all over again.
I have not misrepresented the issue, CC…. you are a censor; you need to admit your problem before the healing process can begin.
stageleft really did mean “masked as Conservatism”, “masked” being the key word. stageleft has made a fair comment. I was skeptical that he actually meant that, I am not skeptical anymore. I should have just asked. Lesson learned.
I have not misrepresented the issue, CC…. you are a censor; you need to admit your problem before the healing process can begin.
There’s something awfully creepy about a grown man being so energised by being a pest.
Seek help. Even if it’s only Beginning Humour For Canadians, because even though you may all of this highly amusing, rest assured no one else does. Not after years of it, at any rate.
Now here is Ti-Guy, brilliantly using the same type of humour to tell me that I’m not funny. Wow.
“There’s something awfully creepy about a grown man being so energized by being a pest.” This admission is your first step on the road to recovery, now if only CC and thwap would do the same.
Speaking of creepy pests, I could not live long enough to comment as much as you have commented all over the blogs, just saying.
I could not live long enough to comment as much as you have commented all over the blogs, just saying.
We’re talking about trolling. Please try to keep up.
I think my job here is done.
Actually, no, it’s not since, way ahead of schedule, Wayne provides another example of his relentless dishonesty above. Completely ignoring the actual issue being discussed here, Wayne takes a swipe at the simple act of commenting, whereupon Ti-Guy has to correct him that that’s not what we’re talking about here.
It is exactly as I described above — Wayne is simply incapable of arguing honestly and in good faith. With anyone. He perpetually misrepresents the topic, gets towel-snapped for his trouble and, eventually, he’ll apologize for fucking up that badly. At which point he goes right back to doing it. Go ahead — tell me I didn’t exactly predict his behaviour.
And right about now, one expects Patrick Ross to show up and contribute to the conversation by screaming “Wanda Watkins!” at the top of his lungs. Wait for it. You know it’s coming.
You are a censor CC, that is a fact.
He’s kind of an arrogant wad, too, if you ask me.
Proof of the fact.
http://canadiancynic.blogspot.com/2009/12/in-which-stephen-harper-gets-his-pants.html#links
I agree sooey.