If The Bible Says He Must Die Execute Him
Texas, USA: Man faces execution after jurors consulted bible to decide his fate
‘And if he smite him with an instrument of iron … the murderer shall surely be put to death‘ – Biblical passage relied on by jurors
Amnesty International has issued an urgent appeal for a man facing execution in three weeks’ time despite the fact that jurors at his trial consulted passages from the Bible in deciding his fate.
Thirty-two-year-old Khristian Oliver is set to be executed in Texas, USA on 5 November. He was sentenced to death in 1999 for a murder committed during a burglary. While deciding whether he should live or die, jurors at his trial consulted copies of the Bible, including text supporting the death penalty, calling into serious question their impartiality.
[ link ]
Next up….. an eye for an eye?
Iranian newspapers say a court has sentenced a man who blinded a woman with acid also to be blinded with acid under the country’s Islamic law.
Thursday’s reports in several newspapers, including the Kargozaran, say 27-year-old Majid confessed to attacking Ameneh Bahrami in 2004 to dissuade anyone from marrying the woman he loved.
Wednesday’s ruling was issued based on the Islamic law system of “qisas,” or eye for an eye retribution.
No difference in the thought process is there?
I’ll wind this one up with the thoughts of one of the jurors involved, ‘if civil law and Biblical law were in conflict the latter should prevail‘.
[ h/t @religionnews ]
And to think that the COoC is of a like mind. We are in for some deep shit if Harper gets a majority.
Couldn’t the jury have just sold his daughters into slavery er sumfin? Did he smite his father? lie with a beast? blaspheme? break the sabbath? commit adultery? Maybe he was a witch? God save us from gods!
Shari’ah in a ten gallon hat. The sumbitch probally ate shell fish and wore garments of mixed fibres too.
Well at least in Iran, women victims seem to count for something rather than just being swept under the carpet unlike in some other Muslim ruled countries. Still not heaven on earth for Iranian women of course.
Interesting how lacking in humanity religious societies are, eh?
@Canuckguy: there’s one in every discussion…. you drew the short straw this time did ya?
@stageleft –
Let me guess, you don’t like being reminded how unjustly Muslim women are treated? Or am I barking up the wrong tree by misintrepreting your facetious snarky comment?
I believe the adjective you are looking for is fasnarkous.
@Canuckguy: Not at all Canuckguy, there are those who oppress women as part of virtually every organized religion – it’s something that Islam shares with different Christian and Jewish sects and it should be acknowledged.
I just found it amusing that you choose, in light of the article I linked, to bash Islam and ignore the bible thumpers in Texas who sentenced a man to death because their holy book told them that was the appropriate action to take.
Now come on, can you admit that there’s no difference between the two judgments I linked or not?
@stageleft –
When PSA mentioned “Shari’ah” I figured that gave me an opening to STATE A FACT!
Is stating that fact considered ‘bashing Islam’ in your mind?
Is stating that fact politically incorrect bad taste in your mind?
I am certainly critical of Islam for fostering that kind of mindset.
As for the Texas bible thumpers, they should have kept the bible out of the decision making. Not necessary. And I have no problem with the death penalty as long the wrong person does not get fried, gassed, hung or injected.
As for the comparison of the two judgements, I don’t accept there is a common ground. We in the democratic west don’t practice mutilation(anymore) as legal punishments. Death penalty, yes but not blinding, chopping of hands, whipping, whatever. How can you even compare the decision of a bunch of bible thumpers with state approved Muslim punishments? You are bending over backwards when you pounce on this odd little tidbit news item in your efforts to show the justice of our Christian based western culture is as deplorable as Islamic justice. That is your intent, don’t try and hide behind your sniggering claim to be just a comparion the two judgements.
Hey, if you want to do some comparisons, how about the story of the Muslim teenage girl(who left her faith) who is fighting not to be sent back to her parents in Ohio because of the very real danger of the hallowed Islamic tradition of honour killing. Yeah, I am sure you can find something but in our western justice system, if a parent kills their child for whatever reason, religious or not, it is murder plain and simple and they will be charged. In many Muslim ruled countries, you often get away with it, domestic dispute, shug.
Sooey, help me here!!!
@Canuckguy: If we can say that “Islam oppresses women” is a fact, then can we say that the “Jewish faith oppresses women”, or that “Christianity oppresses women” are also facts?
Obvious we cannot make such a statement with any accuracy because they are not true.
The only fact you can state is that some sects of Islam oppress women — or does that fact, or the fact that the religions you like also have their oppressive factions, leave a bad taste?
And why do you not accept common ground — both judgments involved a holy book, did they not?
My intent, which you (surprise surprise) incorrectly interpret as part of your knee-jerk reaction, is to state that when religion, any religion, intrudes into civil affairs bad things happen.
PS: If you want comparisons on this, that, or some other thing, done start a blog – it’s easy
@stageleft –
–There is no denying that in the past women were oppressed within the Christian world as compared to the rights they have attained much of which were within the last 100 years. They had been regarded as property just like they were in the pre-Christian world with the exceptions here and there mostly in the form of being actual rulers. It does not leave a bad taste with me since much progress has been made with regard to women’s rights.
–However Islam, for the most part, has not modernized as did the West where secularism plays a stronger role. Especially in gender relations.
–And I have read about a Jewish sect(s) whose treatment of women resembles fundamental Muslim practices. And no doubt there are some Christian sects with a similiar viewpoint. However I will state again, the laws of the West supercede those primitive ways. Those backward thinking sects are marginal(except that Jewish sect who appears rather influential in Israeli politics) whereas fundamental Islam holds a very strong sway in many countries and seem to be getting stronger. That’s a major difference that you have to acknowledge.
“And why do you not accept common ground — both judgments involved a holy book, did they not?” SL — That’s a common ground but my point which I have already made clear, the holy book does not call the shots in the West anymore, not like it use to. However it is obvious that is not the case in Muslim nations. Big difference.
“when religion, any religion, intrudes into civil affairs bad things happen” — SL
I agree wholeheartedly. Fighting, killing in the name of God is so stupidly idiotic. It’s hard to believe there are peoples who still indulge in such practices in the 21st century.
As for the blog thing, I have one which I installed for a lark but I never bothered to develop it to the point of having discussions with strangers, I rather troll around others. Less work.
PS: Have you ever admitted to being wrong? I never saw any sign of that yet.
That’s sort of a difficult statement to make stick unless of course your experience of Islam and how Muslin women are treated goes considerably deeper than what you see in the media – how deep, and more importantly how first hand, is that experience?
I know what I see on TV and read in the media differs considerably from what I see in my apartment building, on the bus, and on the street. As a matter of fact it’s different enough for me to treat any western media description of Islam as suspect.
Yup, that’s truth.
Not, apparently, in certain courtrooms in Texas
In some countries yes, but because a belief structure in “some countries” or in “some places” oppresses women does that mean you can make general blanket statements about the entire belief structure?
Fundamentalist Christians in Africa kill those they suspect of witchcraft and the Catholic Church protects pedophiles – are negative blanket statements about Christianity valid as a result of that?
Can I make blanket statements about the Jewish faith based on the separate doors into buildings, and separate public transit buses, for women that ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects force their women to use?
Except when it does, as in the article I linked.
– and we don’t mind a bit.
I started blogging on January 21, 2003, so yeah, I’ve had my ass handed to me a few times Canuckguy – I’ve not only been wrong but on occasion but, after a compelling argument has been made, I’ve even changed my mind.
And, as with any other reasonable person, my views and opinions have morphed and changed over the years as I have interacted with different people in the virtual space I have created, and as I have learned things.
You can look for me to defend my viewpoint – strenuously even, but while you are entitled you your opinion don’t expect me to change mine unless you present a compelling argument for me to do so.
– which is all to say that if you’re trying to try and make the case that I’m another asshole with a blog who believes that he has the right answer for everything he blogs about, and anybody who disagrees with him is full of shit, well….. you’ve got a really long row to hoe.
PS: The point of the original post was to mock, ridicule, and discredit, religious fundamentalism – we seem to agree that religious fundamentalism is a bad thing. Your issue appears to be with my linking Christian fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism, and consider them in the same light while you want to minimize incidents of Christian fundamentalism because, just possibly, it mocks, ridicules, and discredits, a belief structure you, or those around you, and friendly with.
What is wrong with highlighting creeping religious fundamentalism within western society – one wouldn’t want other cultures to start asking “where are the moderates” about ours now would you?
Actually, the Texas case is worse, to my mind, because a free and democratic people, living in a society where the separation of Church and State should be absolute, are wilfully choosing to base a life and death decision (and the fact that such stupid people can decide the fate of another human being is beyond scary to me) based on what any reasonably educated person should realize is a work of fiction written long before the age of reason or enlightenment or any of those good times for humanity.
The side issue that a free and democratic people continue to believe that the death penalty is right and good pretty much makes me wonder if we are living in an age of devolution. *
*Islamic theocracies do not respect human rights at all.
@sooey: Is that my cue to start a discussion on the merits of capital punishment — I’m not necessarily opposed in certain cases, but I do have a different take on it
@stageleft –
I disagree with your first comment. You can’t seriously think that your personal observations on some of your local Muslims is really a more accurate depiction of the majority of Muslims as reported by the various medias.
A personal observation made by a teacher aquaintance of mine in Calgary. When 9/11 happened, the Muslim students were high fiving each other in her high school. Yep, that agrees more with the impression I get from the MSM I generally follow.
Sooey sums it up well with her * comment. In saying that, I accept that if there was a Christian theocracy, I certainly would not want to live there.
Most of the rest of your points are well taken though I don’t totally agree with all. However, enough of this, we must move on. I have yet to read the more recent postings for outrageous comments.
Go for it. My opinion that society is diminished by the death penalty because it runs counter to progress will hold steady.
I can absolutely believe that my “personal observations on some of your local Muslims is really a more accurate depiction of the majority of Muslims as reported by the various medias” because my observations are first hand regarding people I live with – take note of the disclaimer at the bottom of the page, Buddha said
– a good philosophy that, don’t you think?
And I was hanging out in an IRC channel that morning and saw virtual hi-5’s and the channel was full of westerners, it speaks to anti-Americanism and not necessarily belief structure at all.
@stageleft –
Don’t believe Buddha. Just another zoned out hippie.
Tell us more about IRC channel experience. Just from what you said, those so called westerners disgust me. How could they take joy in the deaths of so many? I was shocked to hear of that school incident from my teacher friend, students, some who were born in Canada, some who moved here as youngsters, they come here for the good peaceful life and yet they embraced this despicable terrorist act. The hell with them.
It’s late, I’m going to bed. I will probably dream of terrorists with scruffy beards.
There’s nothing to tell really, an IRC channel frequented by network geeks from a few different countries, some of them geeks of an international nature, not an overtly political channel but we all had our opinion – contrary to popular mythology they were not taking “joy in the deaths of so many“, and they did not “embrace a despicable terrorist act“, they simply thought that America, and American government interventionist attitudes, needed a thumping.
You`ve bought into a popular manufactured mythology — Muslims hate us, Muslims want us to die, Muslims cheered when our blood washed the streets…
Think of the thousands upon thousands upon thousands (absolutely huge numbers) of Americans and other westerners who cheered and pumped their fists in the air when America bombed Baghdad and in doing so killed so many innocent men, women, and children, and created widows, orphans, and cripples in numbers so much greater than those who were killed on September 11, 2001. Think back to the invasion parties that were held in America, think about the 24/7 cable news coverage people in bars watched with their friends and how they clapped and cheered and high-fived each other when the bombs fell – were they taking “joy in the deaths of so many“?
I know that it’s probably somewhat inconvenient for many people to be reminded of these events but as we all know they did happen didn’t they? The 24/7 cable news networks covered them as well.
Did those people disgust you Canuckguy?
… or did they bring a smile to your face, or evoke some good old fashioned western satisfaction in your gut at the awesome might of America — somewhere deep in your heart of hearts did you also cheer and pump your fist Canuckguy?
I’m not a Buddhist but I acknowledge that if more people followed his teachings and philosophy the world would be a far better place….. and quite frankly a whole lot of people better hope he is just an old hippie, because if that Karma thing bites them on the ass it’s gonna hurt an awful lot.
The American government’s reaction to 9/11 was absolutely biblical, an eye for an eye. It was no more enlightened than the terrorist attack with its roots in islam.
@stageleft –
Well just for the record, though I did indeed swallow hook line and sinker the justifications that George W. Bush issued for the attack on Iraq after 9/11, I have come to believe within a year that it was a big mistake, it was an unnecessary invasion.
But in regard to your facetious statement “Muslims hate us, Muslims want us to die, Muslims cheered when our blood washed the streets… ” – this is in fact a fact. I saw(on TV) them dancing in the streets celebrating the destruction of the Twin Towers. Not all Muslims felt that way, but a goodly number did. Your facetious statement is 100% on the mark when one puts ‘radical’ or ‘fundamentalistic’ in front of the word ‘Muslim’
I wonder why, you bend over backwards in the knee jerk way, to defend Muslims against any sort of reasoned criticism . They are not blameless in spite what you believe.
They are blameless for 9/11, though, so what’s your point?
I saw (on TV) them dancing in the streets celebrating the destruction of the Twin Towers, though I read later that said images where actually from different event entirely and recycled for effect. Still I have no doubt many people, Muslim and otherwise, where far from unhappy that day.
I also saw (on TV) candlelight vigils for the victims from Tehran and other cities in the Muslim world, though oddly such stories got very little play in North American media. Probably because it would make it far harder to justify the calls to slaughter them all and so our own “good Christian folk” can cheer the bombing on CNN and Fox News.
And its not that we’re defending Muslims from any sort of reasoned criticism. We are for one, pointing out that Muslims are no more a monolithic whole than Christians are, and that using the actions of some to smear all the rest is just pure prejudice, same as it would be if we smeared all Christians for the very real actions of many of them.
Two, the fact that the non-Christians in our society have managed to hold back the Christian fundamentalists from imposing their own twisted version of religious law on the rest of us doesn’t somehow mean that they wouldn’t given the chance. Given the power, as that Texas jury was, and as no few school boards have had from time to time, and they start shaping the law to their religion’s demands same as the Islamists do, and just try and guess how many Americans would agree with the statement that lawmakers should absolutely consider their religious beliefs when drawing up laws. We are a secular society, to the extent we really are, in spite of Christianity, not because of it.
@Canuckguy: Well, there’s one admission – you swallowed Bush’s propaganda hook, line, and sinker, many of us didn’t and were labeled as anti-American, terrorist supporting, Saddam loving, commies, how did you feel about that?
You seem to have neglected to mention anything about Americans holding invasion parties and clapping and cheering, and shouting and pumping their fists in the air, and hi-5′ing each other in bars as bombs fell on Baghdad killing innocent men, women, and children, and creating widows, orphans, and cripples. You also failed to mention whether or not you did the same or not, or if you smiled in satisfied awe at Americas might…… am I able to prod you into shedding some of your personal insight on that?
– or is that a side of the issue (and you) that maybe you don’t want to talk about much because it sheds light on a part of Ameican culture that is shared with the culture you seem to want to demonize?
What you saw on TV was what the 24 hour cable news network thought would create the greatest market share for them, and what you heard from their commentators and their anchor desks was what they thought would create the greatest market share for them – in other words they gave you exactly what they thought you wanted to see.
Tell me, how many Muslims do you recall them interviewing where you heard, with your own ears, the words “I am happy that American blood is flowing in the street“? How many times did you hear it from different people? And what percentage of the “Muslim” population are those interviewed and who spoke those words?
There’s no knee-jerking here because 99.9% of what you have said is not “reasoned criticism” – your comments in this respect are blanket statements that are full of generalization, and as soon as that happens there is no “reason” involved – there is only personal bias and emotion.
I saw (on TV) Americans holding invasion parties and clapping and cheering, and shouting and pumping their fists in the air, and hi-5′ing each other in bars as bombs fell on Baghdad killing innocent men, women,and children, and creating widows, orphans, and cripples – can I make any “reasoned criticism” of the entire American culture based on that?
If you want to, as you said, discuss “radical” or “fundamentalist” Islam you’ll find me highly critical, just as you would find me highly critical of “radical” or “fundamentalist” Christians, or “radical” or “fundamentalist” Jews, or indeed “radical” or “fundamentalist” anybody who is seeking to force through, violence and repressive legislation, their limited world view on others.
I recall Americans labelling bombs destined for Osama Bin Laden, supposedly in Afghanistan, “This one’s for Jack”, and so on and so forth and more of the same etc. etc. taking advantage of a non-existent media (in the critical sense) to insist that the bombs were all landing precisely on terrorist heads – no innocents harmed in the staging of this attack. Then, of course, there were the rapes and murders in Iraq by American soldiers, the deaths of thousands of Iraqis, and the complete destruction of Iraq’s infrastructure as America patted itself on the back for killing Saddam Hussein and holding elections there as if it is some kind of expert on democracy, what with the electoral college, Florida, family dynasties, and all.
But I am anti-America, so there you go. I think it’s a mindless bully of a country.
I feel a tremendous urge to make wide sweeping generalizations about Christians… but I shall resist.
@stageleft –
Well at least we agree on the dangers of “radical” or “fundamentalist” of any religion.
But there still was dancing in the streets celebrating 9/11 regardless what BJ or you would have us believe.
And FYI, BJ, I was aware of some vigils of sorrow in the Muslim world.
And you SL, still confirm my opinion that you are a knee jerk defender anytime someone take exceptions to certain aspects of Muslim society and beliefs that is viewed as unacceptable such as supporting terror and repression of human rights. It’s my opinion that Muslim society is basically dsyfunctional in regards to what we Westerners consider appropriate behaviour. That’s the bottom line.
BTW, (I must not let this go by), you seem to like real examples, hot of the presses, how about that Muslim, no doubt devout, father who stabbed his daughter to death because she was pregnant? In Jordan, a country that is considered modern but yet does little to stop honour crimes, little more than a wrist slaps are handed out. Yeah, it’s just not in Afghanistan or Pakistan this sort of crap happens. Hell it even can happen (and has) in Muslim communities in North America. And please spare me the comment that white Christian parents kill their kids also, it happens but not for mainstream religious reasons.
I chew on this bone because it seems you are making excuses like when you present an example of stupidity with our home grown super serious Christian as in that jury. You are waiting for some to rise to the bait so you can hook them in the mouth.
I never said there wasn’t, I did offer you an alternative, that some in western society were also on side with, as to why some of that took place.
Another of your problems, along with being a worrier, is that you think that I am defending something – I’m not. I’m saying that you cannot take the actions or views of some and accurately describe the many…. I don’t care whether it’s Islam, Christianity, the Jewish faith, North American Indigenous cultures, or bloggers…. although truth be known I do get some fun out of mocking and discrediting those blanket statements and generalizations.
Speaking of which…. you haven’t told me if it would be OK for me to make blanket statements and huge ass generalizations about Americans based on their Iraq invasion parties, and clapping and cheering, and shouting and pumping their fists in the air, and hi-5′ing each other in bars as bombs fell on Baghdad killing innocent men, women,and children, and creating widows, orphans, and cripples. You consistently leave that part out of your replies and I do want to know what you think.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, you haven’t defended your position very well, but that’s your problem not mine.
How about we make a deal, you address my question about the accuracy of me making blanket statements and huge ass generalizations about American society based on their Iraq invasion parties, and clapping and cheering, and shouting and pumping their fists in the air, and hi-5′ing each other in bars as bombs fell on Baghdad killing innocent men, women,and children, and creating widows, orphans, and cripples…. and I’ll address that question.
Deal?
Nope, you’re wrong again. I am neither defending radical or violent actions, nor am I ****** ******* *** **** * ******** ** ** ********* ********
redacted until you answer my many times asked question*** ****** * ********** culture or religion.If it’s all or none for some Canuckguy then it’s all or none for all – let me know, ’cause if that’s the way it is I’m gonna have a hell of a lot of fun picking on people over the next few posts.
@stageleft –
Ok ok, deal. Must be careful about blanket statements.
I accept that it would be in very bad taste for Mercans to celebrate civilian deaths.But I am sure they were celebrating the destruction of military targets.
Innocents killed were collateral damage, it’s war, let’s be practical, shit happens.
So will you enlighten us about your opinion on honour kilings?
1. Just another domestic dispute equivalent to a drunken Christian man battering his wife to death becaused she nagged him once too much about his drinking?
Or
2. A sign of Muslim society being dysfunctional for allowing Islam be used in that way.
Did I give you enough choices?
I’m curious about your definition of “Muslim Society”, CG. Since the Muslim population is spread around the world, incorporates interpretations of Islam that range from Sufi mysticism to Sunni to Shia (which themselves have dozens of divisions), and since Islam is practiced in cultures that range from Arabic to African to European to Slavic to Chinese to Pacific, and since the adherents range from sophisticated, educated Canadian scientists to Malaysian peasants…what exactly are you talking about?
Give me a break, that answer does not resemble what was asked and I firmly believe that you know that – try again, there’s no space limitation here, your answer doesn’t need to but it quite literally, it can go on for ever.
In case you’ve forgotten where it came from let me remind you of what I asked way up there in comment #19
If you’re not willing to give me any answers just say so, we’ll record it in the great tome of bunker discussions that made some folk queasy, and be done with it.
@stageleft -
*Can I make any generalizations about Americans based on that?” SL
–I already answered that
* Did their behaviour disgust you? – SL
* Be honest now… how did you feel as you watched the bombs fall knowing that innocent men, women, and children were being killed?” – SL
–Well to tell the truth, I was not really aware of the rampant displays of fist pumping you describe though I certainly saw the TV coverage of the bombing. At the time, though aware of some civilian deaths, I did not think it was in the large numbers that you describe. If it was indeed as bad as you state, then I certainly can feel sympathy for the innocent bombing victims. However I can’t believe the fist pumpers, as crass as they sound, were celebrating the deaths of women, children et al.
Canuckguy, your definition of “Muslim Society”, please?
@Canuckguy: I call bullshit Canuckguy, complete, utter, deep, and smelly, bullshit.
How the f#@k could you not be aware of the displays of fist pumping, cheering and clapping – it got lots of coverage.
I’m gonna peg it at “you didn’t think it was worth noticing, probably because you were sympathetic to their cause“.
How the f#@k could you not see bombs dropping on the capital city of a country and only be aware of “some civilian deaths“? How could you possibly not see bombed out residential neighbourhoods and not know that there were innocent men, women, and children killed by those bombs?
I’m gonna peg it at “you, and most of western society, simply didn’t want to think about that – so you ignored it“.
– and you accuse me defending abhorrent behaviour.
Let me help you out with that one to Canuckguy, you don’t want to believe that some Americans might have some good old fashioned blood lust in their hearts and were quite happy and excited about those deaths, they wanted blood, and their government gave them blood — but you do believe that most Muslims do have that good old fashioned blood lust in their hearts.
Were I you I think I’d be looking deep within myself and asking some tough personal questions because you are exhibiting the signs of a really troubling condition.
That said you (almost) answered the questions (even if you did need a little help) so I’ll answer yours, and no, you did not give me enough choices.
I neither defend, nor make excuses for, the abhorrent behaviour of any individual, or group of individuals, within any culture, society, or belief structure. I don’t give a rats ass whether it’s some deluded Christian nut bar cutting the end of his sons pecker off so he can get right with god, some deluded nut bar follower of Islam who kills his daughter for getting knocked up and by doing so besmirching his manly honour, or a group of deluded nut bars torturing kids because they think they are witches – it’s all completely f#@king wrong.
Was that clear enough for you?
@stageleft – “Was that clear enough for you?”
Yeah, loud and clear, just wanted to see you say it.
Now back to the bullshit part. Really, I don’t recall the rampant displays of fist pumping and whatever else you want to call it. Maybe I have a bad memory. Really, I am not copping out with this answer. Besides, there is nothing wrong in cheering on your armed forces as it rolls to victory. That is only natural. I am sure there was some fist pumping as the Germans were being run out of France and elsewhere during WWII.(and puleeze, don’t get your knickers all in a twist because I made a comparison to WWII)
As for the bombing deaths, well I was only thinking in the hundreds and (again, calm down) I realize a parent mourning a dead child or relative, friend whether it is just one or hundreds and even thousands, it’s all very sad. At the time I only thought we were dealing with a few hundred, again collateral damage, not puposeful targetting of innocent. civilians, I figured the Americans made some honest mistakes. I can now accept that maybe those in charge really did not care enough to bother trying harder to avoid civilian targets. I seem to recall one of the targets was the Secret Police headquarters, fair enough to be targetted but I seem to recall it was smack dab in the middle of civilian areas. Hence civilian deaths were guaranteed. Same for power plants.
“but you do believe that most Muslims do have that good old fashioned blood lust in their hearts.” – SL
Not ‘most’. I believe that a hell of a lot of them are dangerously intolerant and if it is only 10% (and that seems to be a fair and conservative guess), then that is a hell of a lot.
@balbulican – “Canuckguy, your definition of “Muslim Society”, please?” Balbul
I am fully aware that there are many facets to the followers of Islam, many nationalities, tribes, sects and what not with varying degrees of fundamentalism, intolerance and tolerance. When I am critical of ‘Muslim Society’ I am thinking of those who are intolerant to the point of espousing violence.
Good god man, you’re quite fraught with issues ain’t you – in addition to being a chronic worrier you seem to think that people can read your mind, does it surprise you to discover that that isn’t the case?
What you need is a lesson in descriptive adjectives (and other forms of modifiers) … those funny little words we put in front of things like nouns to modify them.
When you say “Muslims took great joy in American blood flowing in the streets of New York on September 11, 2001” you are being inclusive (not to mention totally f#@king wrong) in that statement. For greater clarity, just in case there are other issues here that we don’t yet know about, that means you have included all Muslims in your statement…. here’s an example you wouldn’t agree with.
“Christians recently tortured children they believe to be witches” – it happened, I linked the story on this very blog, and I have just painted all Christians with the same wide brush because those reading this just might be mind readers and know that “I am thinking about fundamentalist Christian nut bars in Africa“.
Pay attention to the words that were underlined, they are the important ones, they let people who cannot read minds know who I am really talking about.
Do you see the difference? Does it make sense to you? Do you see why someone, like me for example, might look at what you say here and think to ourselves “… wtf…. we’ve been visited by a flaming f#@king bigot”?
Your not are you, a flaming f#@king bigot that is?
There’s a fairly easy test for that — do you immediately fear and mistrust anyone you can identify as Muslim? If you do, you may be a bigot…. although there is always the possibility that means you are xenophobic, which is close to bigotry, they can go hand in hand.
Remember Canuckguy, the bunker is here to help, but we can only do that if you want help and are willing to help yourself.
@stageleft –
Good grief! Calm down. You’re going to blow a tire. I see where you are coming from but I had assumed people had enough sense not to assume the word “all’ is present in my usage when I speak of Muslims. There are over a bullion of them, one can’t use the word “all’ and even “most’ can be a tricky situation when discussing these contentious issues.
Now to your question “do you immediately fear and mistrust anyone you can identify as Muslim? ”
I live in a small NB town, I have no aquaintances that are Muslim. But I can answer No. However other than some(all pleasant) in the medical profession who I saw on health business, I have met darn few Muslims though the ones I have met, all male and it was involving business, were very pleasant. I did not immediately have my guard up, I at least waited for interaction to decide if they were likeable.
However If I am visiting TO, let’s say, and a bunch of yelling bearded Muslims waving those classic signs like ‘Death to Juice”, “Islam will Dominate”, etc, I definitely would deport them if I had my druthers. Those I don’t trust. In fact I despise them.
You can call me any name you want.
@stageleft – @balbulican –
I think this horse has been beaten to death by now.
@Canuckguy: You should never assume anything, especially on a blog — it’s one of the few places in the universe where all people look exactly the same… you are little black characters on a white or light grey background. We don’t know you, we can’t see your facial expression, and we can’t hear any inflection in your voice; all we’ve got to go on is the words we see on the screen and their accepted definitions.
@stageleft –
Yup, I keep forgetting that when shooting from the lip.
Must stop.
Not me – shooting from the lip is what makes the Internet so much fun.
It causes conflict and misunderstanding and, IMNSHO, the world has enough of that already.
No it doesn’t. What’s the NS stand for? Numb Skull?
Not So, as in In My Not So Humble Opinion — conflict belongs in the ring… you’re sounding contrary and tense, I think you need a hug, where are you?