Push Just Came To Shove
Stephen Harper told the European Union that if they implemented an import ban on seal products that he would take WTO action – well, the ban passed and the ball is now in his court.
The European Parliament passed a bill Tuesday banning the import of seal products, a move that is expected to cripple the Canadian sealing industry.
The bill, which passed with 550 votes in favour to 49 against, calls commercial seal hunting “inherently inhumane.”
All 27-member governments of the European Union are expected to endorse the ban in the coming weeks, which will likely ensure that the restrictions are in place before next year’s seal hunt.
… will he follow through, or will he cave in favour of his free trade talks?
‘Tis amazing how people can call commercial seal hunting “inherently inhumane” while they have no qualms about the inherently inhumane treatment of pigs, cows, chickens….
I still think we can and should find other markets for seal pelts.
Or, we could just start a good old fashion trade war and ban Nokia, Mercedes Benz, and French wines.
I agree with Chrystal if you’ve worn leather or consumed flesh you’ve promoted some form of animal cruelty, a seal is neither endangered nor deserving of special consideration.
I find it kinda weird that while I’ve eaten seal I’ve never seen a seal coat for sale in Canada. Surely there would be a market here if they tried, its really not that big a product
@Throbbin: Absolutely Throbbin, there are entire markets yet to be expoilted.
My issue with this is not individuals deciding that they do not want to eat or wear anything – it is with people and governments who try and thrust upon us, based on their particular perception of how the world should work, that which they think is good and right and proper.
The word “authoritarian” comes immediately to mind.
I want to work with seal meat. I almost had a chance a while back but it fell through and then I got so busy…but now that my new stove is in maybe…but I heard it smells something fierce when you cook it! Still….I’d like to try it. Not raw. I don’t think I am ready for that.
I’d like to expand the market for seal products within Canada. Maybe we should lobby for seal meat to be an ingredient for the Iron Chef?
No one is thrusting anything upon us, anymore than I am thrusting my values on Monsanto when I buy organic vegetables.
Dude, as soon as you decide that everyone who doesn’t eat organic vegetables like you do is wrong, and start trying to force your personal decision on the rest of us, you are in fact thrusting, and you are in fact being authoritarian.
You make your decisions as to what you’re gonna eat and what you’re gonna wear, and leave me to mine.
Wait a minute, how do you force your personal decision to only eat organic vegetables on anyone anyway and how is thinking that people who don’t eat only organic vegetables are wrong anyone’s business but the person who thinks it?
But no one is forcing any decisions on any of us. European markets were never obligated to buy Canadian seal pelts. They did buy them, but much like I agree markets should be regulated here in Canada, I agree markets should be regulated in Europe as well.
I’m not happy about the seal ban, but I do respect the EU’s right to regulate their markets.
How on earth is it authoritarian for the EU to block the import of a certain commodity? How are they thrusting their beliefs/values on us? By not buying them? They are not saying we can’t hunt seals – just that they won’t allow the importation of pelts. I personally couldn’t care less what they think of Inuit sealing practices (and it should be noted that they are doing this primarily in response to the east coast seal hunt).
Try to keep this in perspective here – it’s no different than if we refused to import foie gras.
The EU parliament are banning the import of seal products because they have been convinced that sealing is immoral. Hypocrites as Crystal Ocean points out!
This parliament isn’t an elected body as I understand it but they are quite willing to impose their double standard sense of morality on their population in the finest authoritarian father knows best fashion.
It’s not as if seal products are harmful to consumers, in which case an import ban makes sense, but rather that sealing is inhumane in the eyes of 550 of the EU parliamentarians.
Cute and cuddly – you may go. Big and ugly – get on the truck.
I blame Walt Disney.
No, blame the World Trade Organization if our appeal of the ruling loses.
But wait…we did refuse to import foie gras. What we get now is NOT the same. I know the process is very painful for the ducks involved but damn it makes their livers tasty. (I ate some black market real stuff once and it was a taste like no other; a subtle sweetness and ever so smooth)
I just came back from the wine store and refused to purchase European wine…that was HARD for me but I will stick to Australia and Argentina and North America for my choices.
But at this point I am not sure we should be chastising the EU on the ban of seal imports. I disagree with the ban but want to ask myself first – how am I supporting the seal market? Do I believe the market should exist just because or should I examine the question? In my somewhat twisted view it appears the government of Canada is upset that one market is closed without supporting a viable market here in Canada. Is seal part of your diet?
Many of my complaints are about food systems. The government has brainwashed all of us to believe that unless the food comes to us sterilized and pre-packaged it cannot be good for us. (Here I am like SL – get the F out of my kitchen). But did you know up to 400 cows can make up ONE pre packaged frozen burger? And this is better for us? (I don’t eat minced beef from grocery stores anymore)
Children living on reserve in Canada are not allowed to be served game foods by schools or day-cares unless the animal was first raised on a farm and slaughtered by due process and given a blue stamp and paid for with receipt to prove it was regulated. It has nothing to do with quality or safety… just control.
I may be wrong but my cynicism says it`s because a lobbyist for the meat industry said make them buy through me and I will make you rich. Now we have generations who grew up believing that if it’s not wrapped in plastic it’s bad. It’s like the image of the white man at the cross walks who tells us it`s ok to cross the street – subtle eh? But don’t we like it when a big white strong man tells us what to do so we don`t have to think about it – saves time non?
Baaaaaa Baaaaaaa
I am not sure how much more plain I can make this Throbbin – they have removed the decision making from the European consumer and taken it on to themselves.
Any time you remove a persons ability to make a decision for thenselves you have taken an authoritarian action, and every time you take an authoritarian action you are being an authoritarian.
They are not telling us what to do, they are telling their people what they are, and are not, allowed to purchase – and that authoritarian act is affecting the lives of people here.
Except SL that some authoritarian is good…right? I mean I like rules that say owners of dogs must poop and scoop (cats too but let’s not complicates things), and I like traffic laws too…………it’s in the minutia that things get complicated. (God I love that word and people who get it [because I never seem to come close] I understand the need but miss the details…and they can be ever so important.)
But SL, are European people (our largest market) freaked by the ban? Are they demanding an alternative market or do they not care enough to oppose their governments? Maybe Europeans don’t like to think on their own or, like other domesticated animals, they have lost the ability? Maybe they actually believe this is good for them?
ahhhh crickey…not that anyone cares but I don’t think owners of dogs must “poop and scoop”, (but if dog owners did poop outside of a toilette ….actually yes I’d friggen hope they’d scoop or bury) but I think animal owners should scoop the poop of their pets! So much nicer – now why couldn’t THAT have been the slogan for the by-law?
Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever read the argument made by wideye about our own country’s support of, or even access to, seal products. I mean, I’ve never been anywhere near seal meat or seal skin and I live right here in Canada.
What kind of market are we talking about over in Europe that couldn’t be compensated for by marketing seal products here at home and making Europeans interested in a little seal exotica travel here to get it.
@wideye: If people are so lazy, selfish, and inconsiderate that they don’t care if other people walk in their dogs sh*t on the sidewalk, or kids fall in it in the public parks, there does need to be a law both to fine their a$$ and take their pet and dispose of it if a good owner cannot be found for it – it’s a public health issue, and yes, lazy, selfish, and inconsiderate people are the (unfortunate) reason that public health laws of that nature came into being.
Traffic laws (nanny state laws aside) are a public safety issue.
That being the case both of your examples fall short of a government telling people that they cannot purchase a pair of seal skin mitts if they want.
@sooey – Maybe not seal meat or seal skin (although I have been in the vicinity of seal meat consumption) but you may have been close to seal product. Seal oil is very rich seal oil as a source of long-chain Omega-3 fatty acids. It can be present in natural health products (yeah, there might be something ironic about that). Seal oil cream also has medical uses.
Those can’t be marketed in the US by law, so it’s either Canada or Europe or both.
Whooee! How about we look at the economics of the hunt?
Back in 2007, the landed value of the seal hunt was only a paltry $12 million. 2008 was about half of that. In 2007, the federal government paid about $3.4 million to rescue sealers from the ice. I don’t know how much we spent in 2008. Taxpayers also pay for aircraft used to locate seals and commercial sealers are led to the seals by Coast Guard icebreakers. Canadian tax dollars support the hunt and the massive PR campaign that was mounted to counter EU opposition.
Despite all the money we spent, the EU still voted for a ban. Now, we’re going to throw good money after bad by mounting a legal challenge at the WTO. At least the lawyers are still making money.
When the banks need money, we bail them out with billions of public dollars. When the dumbass, gas-guzzlin’ auto industry needs money, we bail them out with billions more. When the dirty tar sands need money, we give them billions in tax cuts and bogus R&D grants to fantasyland carbon capture schemes. When tobacco farmers can’t make it, we cough up $288 million in buyout money.
We sell a lot of other stuff to EU customers and our protestation over the seal hunt could well cause a larger boycott of Canadian products of all types. When the US banned seal imports, we didn’t mount a legal challenge, even though the US was formerly the biggest customer. We understood the possible trade ramifications. We’d better wake up and understand what a blanket European boycott of Canadian products could mean.
The seal hunt may be unjustly portrayed as inherently cruel, However, we fought the PR battle on that score and, like it or not, we lost. Public opinion is against the hunt. Also, contrary to what Doug Newton said, the EU Parliament is an elected body.
Even without the EU ban, the market for pelts was down so much in recent years that many sealers didn’t bother going out and risking their necks this past year. I suggest that the EU ban is less a case of an authoritarian imposition than it is a case of the EU Parliament reflecting the wishes of EU citizens. They spoke with their pocketbooks already.
If we simply didn’t fight the ban and gave up the logistical and search & rescue support we lavish on this industry, we’d have millions to invest into alternatives or to simply dole out to the out of work sealers. Instead, we’re planning to spend good dollars fighting a fight we cannot possibly win.
I have no opposition on humanitarian grounds and I understand and appreciate the argument that seals compete with humans for fish. Nevertheless, the public relations war is over and we lost. Time to move on.
BTW, I killed 5 mice in the past 36 hours. There is no market for mouse pelts or mouse meat so I tossed them in the trash. If the seals are pests to the fishing industry, I have no problem with the fishing industry financing a cull. We’ve culled deer down here on Long Point when they became too populous.
Something that I wonder about, though… Back when Cabot sailed into the Grand Banks, the cod were so plentiful they scooped them up with buckets. There was no commercial seal hunt at that time. Who is to blame for cod stock depletion? Seals or human over-fishing?
I think we can develop a Canadian market for Inuit seal products. I think the commercial sealers are already accustomed to taking handouts and giving them each a couple thousand bucks would be much more cost-effective than flogging the dead horse at the WTO.
JB
I’m not exactly sure why, but this video made me think of stageleft;
Tried to embed the video, didn’t work.
You can find it here.
@Throbbin: Let me take a stab at why this made you think of stageleft Throbbin.
You’re a fairly young guy, you’ve (essentially) grown up within the nanny state with its’ nanny state laws. You’re essentially comfortable with the state regulating your life to the ever growing extent that it does because that is the way that it’s always been.
Let me give you some examples.
You don’t have to worry, or make any decisions, about what is or is not acceptable behaviour or conduct in public because one level of government or another tells you what is or is not acceptable.
You don’t have to worry, or make any decisions, about what is or is not “decent” because one level of government or another tells you what is or is not “decent”.
You don’t have to worry, or make any decisions, about what your children learn while they are growing up because one level or another of government makes those decisions for you.
You don’t have to worry, or make any decisions, about whether or not you should light up a smoke on the pub patio because, based on the number of umbrellas that are open, one level or government or another makes that decision for you.
You don’t have to worry, or make any decisions, about whether or not you should wear a seat belt, or your children should be in car seats, because one level of government or another makes that decision for you.
Heck, by the time the first snow falls you won’t even have to worry, make any decisions about, whether or not it’s safe to answer your cell phone while driving, because the government has made that decision for you – and, if things go the way it looks like they are going you won’t even have to worry, or make any decisions, about when its’ time to put on the snow tires, because the government is gonna make that decision for you to.
Now some folks are happy living like that, it’s easy to let one level of government or another make the decisions, there’s no personal responsibility involved.
– and of course other folks are not happy living like that.
* generally speaking a great many people (as a matter of fact the majority of people) fall into the first category
* generally speaking a great many people (as a matter of fact the majority of people) cannot imagine what life without one level of government or another making decisions for them would be like, and/or
* they are afraid of the decisions that others may make if they were not restrained by one level or another of government,
- so they tend to make fun of the people who fall into the second category for complaining about all the laws they they find so very comforting and comfortable.
One of the ways they do this is with funny little videos that equate libertarianism and/or anarchy with lawlessness.They do this because they cannot imagine that without a few hundred thousand laws and regulations telling them what they should or should not do, or how they may or may not conduct themselves as they go about their day, that anything but chaos and lawlessness could possibly result.
I suppose I could speculate about why the great majority of people think like this but that would probably result in a bunch of negative comments about who and what people like me are, and then I’d probably retaliate, and then the whole thing would go completely beyond the ninth wave, and I just don’t feel like going there just now – you and I have had these discussions many times, and we don’t get pi$$ed off at each other over them, but the last time a discussion went down that road in the comments section I offended some folks with my thoughts and the bunker readership is just not so great that I want to alienate any of the readership quite so soon.
Maybe over a beer or two in a few weeks
Well spoken. However, I must retort.
I don’t need a government to tell me what is acceptable or decent. Sometimes I agree with government, sometimes I don’t. I engage in several activities which the government considers unacceptable or indecent, but which are completely acceptable and decent to me.
I don’t worry about what my child learns in school – I reviewed the curriculum before my son started school, and I supplement his education in a manner I see fit.
The non-smoking patios bother me, but not so much that I forget I can simply walk over to the sidewalk to light up. I wear a seat belt, and my son uses a booster seat (they grow so fast!) because it’s safer to do so, not because I’m worried about a ticket. I do this because I have people for whom I must provide (AKA personal responsibility).
I have been using snowtires for years, long before any snowtire legislation was introduced in Ontario.
I take umbridge with the implication that people who see value in the state are without personal responsibility. Perfectly responsible folks get hit by cars, are poisoned by contaminated sandwich meats, get shot and killed as innocent bystanders, and otherwise are harmed by others. The value I see in the state is not that it should make my decisions for me, but that it should implement regulations and safeguards to limit the dangers to me and my family. This is why I have no problems paying taxes – I see the value of my tax dollars whenever I drive on a road or highway, stop at a stoplight, go to the hospital or dentist, and put my son on a schoolbus every morning to go to a publicly funded school.
I take no offense to your comments, just like I hope you took no offense to that video (you are sounding a bit snarky though
. I understand where you are coming from, but I think you mistake the reason I value the state.
I think we’re overdue for a beer. Maybe you’re free this weekend?