Ethnic Malls? So What?
I’m confused about why anyone would have a problem with vendors making a business decision to attract a larger share of a specific market by co-locating.
Community organizers are calling on people to contest a recommendation against “Asian malls” in Calgary as the city hosts the first of five open houses on its long-term plan for land use and transportation.
A report commissioned by the city on commercial and retail policy recommends that Calgary should “avoid the development of ‘Asian’ malls that cater only to a specific ethnic group.”
I sincerely don’t get it. I’m even more baffled by the fact that much of the opposition to these “ethnic malls” seems to be coming from circles normally vehemently opposed to government intervention in the free operation of the market. But here we have an urban planner loftily informing entrepreneurs that they shouldn’t “…just cater to a specific ethnic orientation out there. In fact, they should be open to … population of all backgrounds.” Yes, I always listen to the urban planners when making business decisions about my company. Cough.
According to my read of the article, there’s no plan to ban “population of all backgrounds” from these sites. Unless I missed it, anyone will be able to shop there. When I’m in the mood to immerse myself in a different culture, or pick up a new wok, or try a new Asian restaurant, I usually head to Chinatown – why on earth does it matter that someone wants to create a focused sales and service facility in a mall instead of a street?
Either this idea makes business sense (in which case the mall operator and the vendors will thrive, and Calgarians will get to enjoy a different shopping atmosphere), or it won’t. So what’s the problem?
Any Calgarian readers out there who can explain this to me?
Yea, that article caught my attention too. ‘Tis a red flag day, innit?
Man, I love going to ethnic malls – the big one just outside of Toronto – Pacific Mall has all this stuff you can’t get anywhere else. I remember when they started cropping up in Toronto about 20 years ago and at the time people were unhappy, but eventually everyone calmed down. If you don’t like it, don’t go there.
“If you don’t like it, don’t go there.”
Yeah, really. Not a very complicated thought, is it?
It’s ironic that after the war we were determined to build a colour-blind society and now seem to be on our way to becoming one of the most ethnically hyper-conscious societies in history.
In Toronto about fifteen years ago there was a civic kerfuffle about unilingual Chinese signs in the Asian malls that were springing up in North Toronto (in addition to whole developments of monster homes for wealthy extended families). Some nasty rhetoric from the usual suspects and I remember the Chinese community leaders taking a suprisingly moderate tone and encouraging the community to post English signs rather than stand their ground. Maybe it comes from the history of being a successful and resented minority in so many countries and learning how to avoid the spotlight
It’s easy to explain. Their hatred of the “others” outweighs their love of the free market. The same type of thing occurs when right whingers cheer for any green business to fail.
It seems like the opponents of this type of thing don’t really totally understand what they’re opposing. You don’t have to be Asian to shop at an Asian-centric mall. In fact, many non-Asians LOVE Asian-centric malls because you can get things there (particularly food items, but lots of other things too) that you just can’t get elsewhere. As mentioned above, the most meaningful comparison is a city’s “Chinatown” (or “Little Italy” or…). No one would suggest (I don’t think) that we shut down Chinatown because it’s somehow not “inclusive” enough, would they? This is just the same phenomenon, but more “indoors”.
To me, this is like opposing the opening of a Greek restaurant because it “only caters to Greeks”. It’s just silly.
Speaking as a Calgarian who has strained eyeballs from rolling them so often, It’s just the usual entitled suspects that have opposed the openings of buddhist temples because of the ‘noise’ from err..something…and the ’smoke pollution’ that will result from incense burning; opposed the chinese senior citizen residence because it was ‘too tall’ and ‘blocked the view’ of older domiciles in the (still) anglo-dominated neighbourhood; opposed the building of ’super-mosques’ in town because of the resulting ‘fifth column’ sure to spring from their cavernous depths (along with the resulting noise pollution of any calls to prayer of course).
Feeding it all of course, is the classic excuse/fear of the Asian hordes descending on the city, exacerbated by gang violence(can we say yellow peril updated? and did we ignore the ‘white’ gang violence that goes on? yes we did).
Areas of town where recent immigrants have settled (mostly because of cheaper real estate and ’seed’ cultural centres already sprung up)make some anglo-saxon descendants nervous to be even momentarily outnumbered and out of their ‘it’s all for me’ comfort zone. This was solidified for me in speaking to someone who moved out of the city to commuterville because, and I quote, “It’s getting too brown. We didn’t want to raise the kids there.”
It’s not like the ‘ethnic’ malls aren’t attracting ‘outside’ business to the areas they anchor and create tax base (trust me, the newest ‘market-under-one-roof-style’ ones are *packed* on the weekend; this is Canada -who wants to shop outside in winter???).
The city’s Chinatown historically was pushed around Calgary’s core whenever anglos wanted the community’s land. The present area is sitting on some of the priciest real estate psm in town and under pressure (unless the market collapses. Again.). It’s really hard to build/expand. So Chinatown has been growing up the north side of the river and Asians are living everywhere in town.
No one is barred from going to malls like the ones T&J anchor or forced to attend them. They tend to be clumped near Superstores, etc in ‘burbville where you have to drive *anyway*. It’s not like there’s the same whining about oh, Chinook, or Market Mall (or a host of others in town) that don’t have an Asian shop in sight, except at the food court.
The snivelers can grasp onto the latest talking point of reverse racism if they like, but it’s just all the same dog-whistle code for anglo-saxon privilege quivering in its boots at the uppity minority’s rising profile, (fuelled by what seems to be the Asian variation of Reconquista theory – although I guess it would technically just be a Conquista).
Considering the new ‘anglo’ malls are mostly franchise clone-boredom by the square mile, the non-anglo malls are treasure troves to consumers who don’t have fainting fits over mull-tee-kull-churl-izm.
@Lord Kitchener’s Own – In fact Lord Kitchener I can point you towards people who advocate that immigrants and ethnic groups not be allowed to gather in enclaves within urban areas but rather, for their own good of course, should be forced to locate in diverse areas to better integrate into Canadian society.
It should probably come as no surprise that these “freedom of mobility and association for us but not for those pesky foreigners” types inhabit a political quadrant considerably above, and quite a ways to the right, from the bunker.
I know you don’t get it Balb. But many of us do.
Society used to be about making a community with various stores offering the needs of the household. Now it’s about fostering segregated communities with Chinese markets offering nothing that someone other than the eclectic white adventuring hippie might want. One wonders why one bothers to leave China at all when one brings the country along for the ride.
“But many of us do.”
Let me rephrase, Raph. I’m fully aware of the depth of fearful, thuggish, racist nativism that’s fashionable in your circle . It’s as old as the hills – the same grumbling accompanied the initial waves of Italian, Jewish, German, Irish, Ukranian, African, Middle Easter and Chinese immigration to North America. I’m quite familiar with the history of immigration to North American: so I wasn’t looking for a reiteration of your usual dull, xenophobic prattle. I was inviting folks who actually think about these issues to explain why folks like you feel so threatened by changes in demographics.
Your tiresome rhetoric [thuggish, racist nativism] will accompany anyone who tries to explain why ethnic neighbourhoods are a bad thing. So why invite comment? Your predetermined opinions should satisfy all your readers with white liberal guilt fetishism.
So long as Raphael has become the new whipping boy for perjoratives, how about you try on a few and see if they’re your size:
You are a boorish and predictable leftist who quite arrogantly espouses his revisionist theories about how all history before the progressive revolution is either white, racist, or both. You cannot accept divergent opinion because it is in your nature to convulse to the concepts of debating the real meaning of diversity. It’s okay for you to like the sound of the muezzin screaming his calls to prayer at five in the morning, but it’s not okay for me not to, and that therefore makes me xenophobic. You think it’s great that cohesive, diverse, vibrant neighbourhoods have been homogeneously reformed into ethnic enclaves exclusively of one kind of immigrant, but my disagreement disqualifies opinion.
You don’t want comments, you want agreement, and validation from your fellow progressives that you’re winning the war against the white ruling class that has always tried to keep the brown skins away. Yes, the nativist view that diversity should actually mean the very definition it is written by. The nativist view that commercial businesses should cater to all Canadians, and not just the ones that speak their language and share their heritage. The nativist view that is shared by the Chinese president of Global Retail Strategies, Tom Leung.
God, but you leftists are intellectually bereft of any honesty whatsoever.
See Lord Kitchener’s Own, I told ya I could point you towards people who advocate that immigrants and ethnic groups not be allowed to gather in enclaves within urban areas……..
Raphael would have made a great character in a Mordechai Richler novel, marching up and down St. Urbain Street to demand they make room for Aunt Betty’s homemade muffin shop beside Moishe’s Deli.
“Oy vey, there goes the neighbourhood.”
Raph – it doesn’t work here. Sorry. Try CC’s place.
Peter:
There were always Raphs, Peter – my dad (born in Ireland) had a great collection of clippings from New York and Boston newspapers about the Irish Menace (they never got called the Green Peril, as far as I know.) Irish immigration was endangering American culture and security. The Irish are unclean, clannish, drunken, criminal, interested only in perpetuating their own primitive communities and ancient wars on decent American soil, without interest in or regard for the greater community of True Americans. And of course, because they’re Catholics of an expecially primitive type, they’re secretly under the control of the Vatican and cannot be trusted in politics (an argument that SUZANNE and others of her disgusting ilk have now given some credence to, unfortunately).
In the old days nativist racists grumbled around a cracker barrel and spat. Now they blog.
“Now it’s about fostering segregated communities with Chinese markets offering nothing that someone other than the eclectic white adventuring hippie might want.”
If nothing else, this is an ignorant and dishonest statement. Have you ever shop or ate in an “ethnic enclave” (which these days are less monocultural than before)? This is hardly a reflection of fact, but some awful stereotype that deserves whatever mocking Balb/SL throw at it.
balb
I know, but there are some differences in the modern version of nativism:
In the old days, immigrants were a menace for all the reasons you say and shouldn’t have been allowed in. Children were warned not to get too close to them and they were assumed to be incapable of adapting and integrating. Today they are expected to step off the plane singing Oh Canada in perfect English and move immediately and seamlessly into self-reliance and a net improvement in the public accounts. A failure to do so is evidence of low moral fibre at best or disloyalty at worst. In the old days boys were warned off dating their daughters to avoid cultural infections, now the poor girls are expected to explain why they don’t all live in Orleans and start for the school volleyball team.
I blame a lot of this on economists and statisticians who drown us in studies showing the “net cost” of immigration, which is always a snapshot of the first generation and belies the reality of immigration as a multi-generational process. But lest you lefties get too smug about this, SL and his ilk are too fixated on the racism bogeyman. Hardly anybody anymore is racist in the sense your dad understood. The dirigisme many want to impose on immigrants is just as prevalent in bureaucracies and school boards full of humourless social engineers and activists “implementing” creative new immigration policies in the name of anti-racism and human rights. You’d think after all our experience we’d realize the chance of overall success approaches certainty if we would just welcome these people and leave them alone to build their lives in peace, but I keep forgetting that ignorance is a renewable resource.
Raphael, you didn’t actually respond to balbulican’s question: you simply affirmed your own prejudice without justifying it. And your dismissal of people who enjoy the experience of other cultural environments is rude, shallow, and frankly silly. Chinatown in my city is frequented by a rather more diverse group than just (a) Chinese and (b) eclectic white adventuring hippies.
‘The nativist view that commercial businesses should cater to all Canadians, and not just the ones that speak their language and share their heritage.”
Really? You have some indication that the businesses in question will not be selling to people who don’t speak their language or share their heritage? Where did you see that?
You have some indication that the businesses in question will not be selling to people who don’t speak their language or share their heritage?
Well, who the hell cares if they don’t? My wife’s family are immigrants from Greece and when I attend the weddings, baptisms, etc. of the community, I’m struck by the number of first generation immigrants who have been here for decades, built successful businesses and families and still struggle with English. Does anybody think their loyalty to Canada is any less for that? They’ve lived and worked in the Greek immigrant community since they got off the boat. Of course their kids are all fluent in at least three languages and likely to be successful professionals working in downtown office towers.
Geez, c’mon people, take a look at our history. My office borders Chinatown and I’m under the impression half the people who live and work here don’t speak much English. Am I supposed to call for their deportation or frogmarch them into night school?
“Well, who the hell cares if they don’t? ”
Kathy Shaidle, Wendy Sullivan – you know, those folks who periodically like to blog about how much they detest Canada.
Don’t pay them any mind, Sarah. When they get to you, just imagine them spending eternity in a special room in the Other Place endlessly discussing their vanishing heritage over dinners of over-cooked, unspiced roasts and vegetables boiled to mush.
….while endless repeats of the Tommy Hunter Show loop in the background as they fight over the only available book, “Roughing It In The Bush.”.
…only to discover the copy of the book is a French translation.
Peter wins the thread.
@Raphael – Dear “Raphael” (and no, that’s not really your name):
Shouldn’t you be furiously scribbling some post about feminists and not-real Canadians and their inherent responsibility for the downfall of Western society as a whole? It’s probably been minutes since you took a kick at someone who doesn’t look just like you.
P.S. What a sad, colourless life you must lead, far from the maddening, ethnic horde.
Isn’t everything at the mall pretty much made in China anyway?
Ethnic malls rock, Vancouver has lots of them (must drive RA crazy). You can get stuff there that you can’t get anywhere else — I buy 2nd hand saris for the material, which I use to make other stuff like pillow cases (saris are gorgeous, but they’re not really “me”). And the food… ahhhh… So what if I don’t speak the prevailing language of the environment? It’s never stopped me from buying anything I want or being able to get lunch.
There’s only one reason for objecting to an ethnic mall, and we all know what it is. If these things were a bad idea, nobody would go to them and the whims of the market would do the rest.
I guess some conservatives don’t trust the invisible hand as much as they let on. (Or maybe it all depends what colour the hand is, eh?)