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	<title>Comments on: And They Didn&#8217;t Even Notice</title>
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		<title>By: Blog-comment speechcrimes in Canada</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136555</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog-comment speechcrimes in Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136555</guid>
		<description>[...] [CHRC lawyer Margot Blight] said.&#8221; (National Post via Western Standard Shotgun blog; more; StageLeft.info via [...]&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136555&#039;,&#039;Blog-comment speechcrimes in Canada&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136555&#039;,&#039;Blog-comment speechcrimes in Canada&#039;,&#039;&#91;...&#93; &#91;CHRC lawyer Margot Blight&#93; said.&#8221; (National Post via Western Standard Shotgun blog; more; StageLeft.info via &#91;...&#93;&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [CHRC lawyer Margot Blight] said.&#8221; (National Post via Western Standard Shotgun blog; more; StageLeft.info via [...]
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136555','Blog-comment speechcrimes in Canada'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136555','Blog-comment speechcrimes in Canada','&amp;#91;...&amp;#93; &amp;#91;CHRC lawyer Margot Blight&amp;#93; said.&amp;#8221; (National Post via Western Standard Shotgun blog; more; StageLeft.info via &amp;#91;...&amp;#93;'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Saskboy</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136549</link>
		<dc:creator>Saskboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 01:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136549</guid>
		<description>While a few Conservative readers cast their gaze this way, it might be worth pointing out that the Conservative Party itself poses a threat to the continuation of blogging:
http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/09/15/harpercopyright-bill-to-put-bloggers-in-debt/
and it doesn&#039;t have to do with hate speech. Lance has cleverly covered this topic before, but I hope will again in the election campaign.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136549&#039;,&#039;Saskboy&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136549&#039;,&#039;Saskboy&#039;,&#039;While a few Conservative readers cast their gaze this way, it might be worth pointing out that the Conservative Party itself poses a threat to the continuation of blogging:\r\nhttp:\/\/www.abandonedstuff.com\/2008\/09\/15\/harpercopyright-bill-to-put-bloggers-in-debt\/\r\nand it doesn\&#039;t have to do with hate speech. Lance has cleverly covered this topic before, but I hope will again in the election campaign.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While a few Conservative readers cast their gaze this way, it might be worth pointing out that the Conservative Party itself poses a threat to the continuation of blogging:<br />
<a href="http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/09/15/harpercopyright-bill-to-put-bloggers-in-debt/" rel="nofollow">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/09/15/harpercopyright-bill-to-put-bloggers-in-debt/</a><br />
and it doesn&#8217;t have to do with hate speech. Lance has cleverly covered this topic before, but I hope will again in the election campaign.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136549','Saskboy'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136549','Saskboy','While a few Conservative readers cast their gaze this way, it might be worth pointing out that the Conservative Party itself poses a threat to the continuation of blogging:\r\nhttp:\/\/www.abandonedstuff.com\/2008\/09\/15\/harpercopyright-bill-to-put-bloggers-in-debt\/\r\nand it doesn\'t have to do with hate speech. Lance has cleverly covered this topic before, but I hope will again in the election campaign.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: empirecookie</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136547</link>
		<dc:creator>empirecookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136547</guid>
		<description>HRCs do not &quot;arbitrate&quot; complaints between citizens - in many provinces, they have carriage of complainants that are brought before a Human Rights Tribunal - the HRC controls access to the Tribunal. Not every complaint gets a hearing, just complaints that the HRC believes are well-founded and raise important issues. So they are, in a sense, like prosecutors, but a person has to have made the complaint in the first place. BTW, this system changed recently in Ontario where the HRC now has a very limited role and complainants now complain directly to the Tribunal itself. But it is the Tribunal that hears and decides the case, not the Commission.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136547&#039;,&#039;empirecookie&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136547&#039;,&#039;empirecookie&#039;,&#039;HRCs do not \&quot;arbitrate\&quot; complaints between citizens - in many provinces, they have carriage of complainants that are brought before a Human Rights Tribunal - the HRC controls access to the Tribunal. Not every complaint gets a hearing, just complaints that the HRC believes are well-founded and raise important issues. So they are, in a sense, like prosecutors, but a person has to have made the complaint in the first place. BTW, this system changed recently in Ontario where the HRC now has a very limited role and complainants now complain directly to the Tribunal itself. But it is the Tribunal that hears and decides the case, not the Commission.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HRCs do not &#8220;arbitrate&#8221; complaints between citizens &#8211; in many provinces, they have carriage of complainants that are brought before a Human Rights Tribunal &#8211; the HRC controls access to the Tribunal. Not every complaint gets a hearing, just complaints that the HRC believes are well-founded and raise important issues. So they are, in a sense, like prosecutors, but a person has to have made the complaint in the first place. BTW, this system changed recently in Ontario where the HRC now has a very limited role and complainants now complain directly to the Tribunal itself. But it is the Tribunal that hears and decides the case, not the Commission.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136547','empirecookie'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136547','empirecookie','HRCs do not \&quot;arbitrate\&quot; complaints between citizens - in many provinces, they have carriage of complainants that are brought before a Human Rights Tribunal - the HRC controls access to the Tribunal. Not every complaint gets a hearing, just complaints that the HRC believes are well-founded and raise important issues. So they are, in a sense, like prosecutors, but a person has to have made the complaint in the first place. BTW, this system changed recently in Ontario where the HRC now has a very limited role and complainants now complain directly to the Tribunal itself. But it is the Tribunal that hears and decides the case, not the Commission.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136546</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136546</guid>
		<description>Sure they do, Robert.  Just like The Inquisition mediated doctrinal disputes.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136546&#039;,&#039;Peter&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136546&#039;,&#039;Peter&#039;,&#039;Sure they do, Robert.  Just like The Inquisition mediated doctrinal disputes.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure they do, Robert.  Just like The Inquisition mediated doctrinal disputes.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136546','Peter'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136546','Peter','Sure they do, Robert.  Just like The Inquisition mediated doctrinal disputes.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Robert McClelland</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136545</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert McClelland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136545</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Anyone who runs an online message board, from the lowliest vanity blogger to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, can be charged under federal human rights law if visitors to their site post hateful comments, according to the Canadian Human Rights Commission.&lt;/i&gt;

The HRCs don&#039;t charge people. They arbitrate complaints by citizens against other citizens. That fact alone and the writer&#039;s inability to grasp the concept renders the article worthless.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136545&#039;,&#039;Robert McClelland&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136545&#039;,&#039;Robert McClelland&#039;,&#039;&lt;i&gt;Anyone who runs an online message board, from the lowliest vanity blogger to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, can be charged under federal human rights law if visitors to their site post hateful comments, according to the Canadian Human Rights Commission.&lt;\/i&gt;\r\n\r\nThe HRCs don\&#039;t charge people. They arbitrate complaints by citizens against other citizens. That fact alone and the writer\&#039;s inability to grasp the concept renders the article worthless.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Anyone who runs an online message board, from the lowliest vanity blogger to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, can be charged under federal human rights law if visitors to their site post hateful comments, according to the Canadian Human Rights Commission.</i></p>
<p>The HRCs don&#8217;t charge people. They arbitrate complaints by citizens against other citizens. That fact alone and the writer&#8217;s inability to grasp the concept renders the article worthless.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136545','Robert McClelland'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136545','Robert McClelland','&lt;i&gt;Anyone who runs an online message board, from the lowliest vanity blogger to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, can be charged under federal human rights law if visitors to their site post hateful comments, according to the Canadian Human Rights Commission.&lt;\/i&gt;\r\n\r\nThe HRCs don\'t charge people. They arbitrate complaints by citizens against other citizens. That fact alone and the writer\'s inability to grasp the concept renders the article worthless.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136542</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136542</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m at sharp odds with Dr. Dawg over Section 13 and I think HRC&#039;s have been badly corrupted, and I also think going after Steyn while treating the CIC with kid gloves was a huge, elitist blunder, but where did we get this idea that racist hate speech directed against other Canadians is just about &quot;hurting feelings&quot;? Stageleft, do you know what passes for &quot;debate&quot; about aboriginal peoples on too many blogs?  Do you think the answer is just to tell our aboriginals that sticks and stones may break their bones, etc.?  There is a point where the distinction between speech and action  blurs and where repeated unacceptable speech becomes mainstream through repetition.  I am no more impressed with the absolutist libertarian argument about hate speech than I am with the argument that beefy young tatooed thugs swearing profusely at little old ladies in public parks is part of the heritage bequeathed by John Locke. 

I don&#039;t have any magic solutions and I would really like to see a Royal Commission on this one, but I will tell you one thing.  If I&#039;m in a public (&#039;cause the free-speechers think that makes a big difference) hockey arena and hear the crowd chanting &quot;Ragheads go Home&quot; at a Muslim kid playing, I want  it stopped fast, firmly and however, Charter of Rights be damned.  So why is the printed word all that different?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136542&#039;,&#039;Peter&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136542&#039;,&#039;Peter&#039;,&#039;I\&#039;m at sharp odds with Dr. Dawg over Section 13 and I think HRC\&#039;s have been badly corrupted, and I also think going after Steyn while treating the CIC with kid gloves was a huge, elitist blunder, but where did we get this idea that racist hate speech directed against other Canadians is just about \&quot;hurting feelings\&quot;? Stageleft, do you know what passes for \&quot;debate\&quot; about aboriginal peoples on too many blogs?  Do you think the answer is just to tell our aboriginals that sticks and stones may break their bones, etc.?  There is a point where the distinction between speech and action  blurs and where repeated unacceptable speech becomes mainstream through repetition.  I am no more impressed with the absolutist libertarian argument about hate speech than I am with the argument that beefy young tatooed thugs swearing profusely at little old ladies in public parks is part of the heritage bequeathed by John Locke. \r\n\r\nI don\&#039;t have any magic solutions and I would really like to see a Royal Commission on this one, but I will tell you one thing.  If I\&#039;m in a public (\&#039;cause the free-speechers think that makes a big difference) hockey arena and hear the crowd chanting \&quot;Ragheads go Home\&quot; at a Muslim kid playing, I want  it stopped fast, firmly and however, Charter of Rights be damned.  So why is the printed word all that different?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m at sharp odds with Dr. Dawg over Section 13 and I think HRC&#8217;s have been badly corrupted, and I also think going after Steyn while treating the CIC with kid gloves was a huge, elitist blunder, but where did we get this idea that racist hate speech directed against other Canadians is just about &#8220;hurting feelings&#8221;? Stageleft, do you know what passes for &#8220;debate&#8221; about aboriginal peoples on too many blogs?  Do you think the answer is just to tell our aboriginals that sticks and stones may break their bones, etc.?  There is a point where the distinction between speech and action  blurs and where repeated unacceptable speech becomes mainstream through repetition.  I am no more impressed with the absolutist libertarian argument about hate speech than I am with the argument that beefy young tatooed thugs swearing profusely at little old ladies in public parks is part of the heritage bequeathed by John Locke. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any magic solutions and I would really like to see a Royal Commission on this one, but I will tell you one thing.  If I&#8217;m in a public (&#8217;cause the free-speechers think that makes a big difference) hockey arena and hear the crowd chanting &#8220;Ragheads go Home&#8221; at a Muslim kid playing, I want  it stopped fast, firmly and however, Charter of Rights be damned.  So why is the printed word all that different?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136542','Peter'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136542','Peter','I\'m at sharp odds with Dr. Dawg over Section 13 and I think HRC\'s have been badly corrupted, and I also think going after Steyn while treating the CIC with kid gloves was a huge, elitist blunder, but where did we get this idea that racist hate speech directed against other Canadians is just about \&quot;hurting feelings\&quot;? Stageleft, do you know what passes for \&quot;debate\&quot; about aboriginal peoples on too many blogs?  Do you think the answer is just to tell our aboriginals that sticks and stones may break their bones, etc.?  There is a point where the distinction between speech and action  blurs and where repeated unacceptable speech becomes mainstream through repetition.  I am no more impressed with the absolutist libertarian argument about hate speech than I am with the argument that beefy young tatooed thugs swearing profusely at little old ladies in public parks is part of the heritage bequeathed by John Locke. \r\n\r\nI don\'t have any magic solutions and I would really like to see a Royal Commission on this one, but I will tell you one thing.  If I\'m in a public (\'cause the free-speechers think that makes a big difference) hockey arena and hear the crowd chanting \&quot;Ragheads go Home\&quot; at a Muslim kid playing, I want  it stopped fast, firmly and however, Charter of Rights be damned.  So why is the printed word all that different?'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: stageleft</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136537</link>
		<dc:creator>stageleft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136537</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a reason why authoritarianism creeps and freedoms are eroded Ti-Guy.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-136530&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Originally Posted By Ti-Guy&lt;/a&gt; No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I obviously disagree with you, but even if you&#039;re right doesn&#039;t that make them a great target .... a few blogs.... who cares.... what do they matter.... &lt;i&gt;see above&lt;/i&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136537&#039;,&#039;stageleft&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136537&#039;,&#039;stageleft&#039;,&#039;There\&#039;s a reason why authoritarianism creeps and freedoms are eroded Ti-Guy.\r\n\r\n&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=\&#039;#comment-136530\&#039; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;Originally Posted By Ti-Guy&lt;\/a&gt; No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\r\n\r\nI obviously disagree with you, but even if you\&#039;re right doesn\&#039;t that make them a great target .... a few blogs.... who cares.... what do they matter.... &lt;i&gt;see above&lt;\/i&gt;&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a reason why authoritarianism creeps and freedoms are eroded Ti-Guy.</p>
<blockquote><p><a href='#comment-136530' rel="nofollow">Originally Posted By Ti-Guy</a> No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.</p></blockquote>
<p>I obviously disagree with you, but even if you&#8217;re right doesn&#8217;t that make them a great target &#8230;. a few blogs&#8230;. who cares&#8230;. what do they matter&#8230;. <i>see above</i>
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136537','stageleft'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136537','stageleft','There\'s a reason why authoritarianism creeps and freedoms are eroded Ti-Guy.\r\n\r\n&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=\'#comment-136530\' rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;Originally Posted By Ti-Guy&lt;\/a&gt; No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\r\n\r\nI obviously disagree with you, but even if you\'re right doesn\'t that make them a great target .... a few blogs.... who cares.... what do they matter.... &lt;i&gt;see above&lt;\/i&gt;'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: A non-emu's opinion</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136533</link>
		<dc:creator>A non-emu's opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136533</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s also a question if we, as a society, have a moral imperative to act to prevent harm when we see it might occur. One could easily argue that speeding, in and of itself, harms nobody. Thus there is less of a reason to punish people who speed then there is to punish people who say things like &quot;All latinos are shifty and lazy, and will try to steal your money if you hire them on a contract job&quot; -- because statements like that do hurt people when they are believed, they can cause real losses of income and jobs.

The typical answer is &quot;Well we just argue back, show facts, and stuff&quot; but that assumes that a person is actually looking for the facts, and that the rebuttals can be found.

The bar should definitely be set very high, but I don&#039;t think it should be eliminated.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136533&#039;,&#039;A non-emu\&#039;s opinion&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136533&#039;,&#039;A non-emu\&#039;s opinion&#039;,&#039;There\&#039;s also a question if we, as a society, have a moral imperative to act to prevent harm when we see it might occur. One could easily argue that speeding, in and of itself, harms nobody. Thus there is less of a reason to punish people who speed then there is to punish people who say things like \&quot;All latinos are shifty and lazy, and will try to steal your money if you hire them on a contract job\&quot; -- because statements like that do hurt people when they are believed, they can cause real losses of income and jobs.\r\n\r\nThe typical answer is \&quot;Well we just argue back, show facts, and stuff\&quot; but that assumes that a person is actually looking for the facts, and that the rebuttals can be found.\r\n\r\nThe bar should definitely be set very high, but I don\&#039;t think it should be eliminated.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also a question if we, as a society, have a moral imperative to act to prevent harm when we see it might occur. One could easily argue that speeding, in and of itself, harms nobody. Thus there is less of a reason to punish people who speed then there is to punish people who say things like &#8220;All latinos are shifty and lazy, and will try to steal your money if you hire them on a contract job&#8221; &#8212; because statements like that do hurt people when they are believed, they can cause real losses of income and jobs.</p>
<p>The typical answer is &#8220;Well we just argue back, show facts, and stuff&#8221; but that assumes that a person is actually looking for the facts, and that the rebuttals can be found.</p>
<p>The bar should definitely be set very high, but I don&#8217;t think it should be eliminated.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136533','A non-emu\'s opinion'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136533','A non-emu\'s opinion','There\'s also a question if we, as a society, have a moral imperative to act to prevent harm when we see it might occur. One could easily argue that speeding, in and of itself, harms nobody. Thus there is less of a reason to punish people who speed then there is to punish people who say things like \&quot;All latinos are shifty and lazy, and will try to steal your money if you hire them on a contract job\&quot; -- because statements like that do hurt people when they are believed, they can cause real losses of income and jobs.\r\n\r\nThe typical answer is \&quot;Well we just argue back, show facts, and stuff\&quot; but that assumes that a person is actually looking for the facts, and that the rebuttals can be found.\r\n\r\nThe bar should definitely be set very high, but I don\'t think it should be eliminated.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: cold canadian</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136531</link>
		<dc:creator>cold canadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136531</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-136530&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Originally Posted By Ti-Guy&lt;/a&gt;No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.

The issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There&#039;s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where &quot;more speech to combat hate speech&quot;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And so you believe that unelected government officials should be the gate-keepers?  What if they don&#039;t care for your views one day?

As to scale, if a blogger from her basement in Saskatchewan can command the audience that SDA gets, I would say that scale is only limited by interest in the message - good or bad interest.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136531&#039;,&#039;cold canadian&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136531&#039;,&#039;cold canadian&#039;,&#039;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=\&#039;#comment-136530\&#039; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;Originally Posted By Ti-Guy&lt;\/a&gt;No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.\r\n\r\nThe issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There\&#039;s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where \&quot;more speech to combat hate speech\&quot;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\r\n\r\nAnd so you believe that unelected government officials should be the gate-keepers?  What if they don\&#039;t care for your views one day?\r\n\r\nAs to scale, if a blogger from her basement in Saskatchewan can command the audience that SDA gets, I would say that scale is only limited by interest in the message - good or bad interest.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><a href='#comment-136530' rel="nofollow">Originally Posted By Ti-Guy</a>No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.</p>
<p>The issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There&#8217;s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where &#8220;more speech to combat hate speech&#8221;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.</p></blockquote>
<p>And so you believe that unelected government officials should be the gate-keepers?  What if they don&#8217;t care for your views one day?</p>
<p>As to scale, if a blogger from her basement in Saskatchewan can command the audience that SDA gets, I would say that scale is only limited by interest in the message &#8211; good or bad interest.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136531','cold canadian'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136531','cold canadian','&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=\'#comment-136530\' rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;Originally Posted By Ti-Guy&lt;\/a&gt;No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.\r\n\r\nThe issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There\'s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where \&quot;more speech to combat hate speech\&quot;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\r\n\r\nAnd so you believe that unelected government officials should be the gate-keepers?  What if they don\'t care for your views one day?\r\n\r\nAs to scale, if a blogger from her basement in Saskatchewan can command the audience that SDA gets, I would say that scale is only limited by interest in the message - good or bad interest.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Ti-Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136530</link>
		<dc:creator>Ti-Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136530</guid>
		<description>No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.

The issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There&#039;s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where &quot;more speech to combat hate speech&quot;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136530&#039;,&#039;Ti-Guy&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136530&#039;,&#039;Ti-Guy&#039;,&#039;No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.\r\n\r\nThe issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There\&#039;s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where \&quot;more speech to combat hate speech\&quot;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.</p>
<p>The issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There&#8217;s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where &#8220;more speech to combat hate speech&#8221;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136530','Ti-Guy'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136530','Ti-Guy','No one really cares what bloggers say. I think this is an attempt at self-glorification, SL.\r\n\r\nThe issues with regard to people like Steyn relate to the audience  they can command with mass media.  There\'s an issue of scale here.  And if you are not worried about that, just wait until the public airwaves are filled to capacity with FoxNews and hate-radio, where \&quot;more speech to combat hate speech\&quot;  will be as effective as spitting against a tsunami.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136528</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136528</guid>
		<description>Bravo, sir.

Needless to say, I stand with you and the likes of Ron Good  and the Carbuncle who have been saying this for ages.

The answer to hate speech and the bile spewed by idiots like Styen and Levant is MORE speech, not less.

I heartily await some of the SDA commenters here vociferously condemning the use of SLAPP suits by Ezra Levant as much as they do against HRC. 

Both are an afront to free speech and expression.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136528&#039;,&#039;Mike&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136528&#039;,&#039;Mike&#039;,&#039;Bravo, sir.\r\n\r\nNeedless to say, I stand with you and the likes of Ron Good  and the Carbuncle who have been saying this for ages.\r\n\r\nThe answer to hate speech and the bile spewed by idiots like Styen and Levant is MORE speech, not less.\r\n\r\nI heartily await some of the SDA commenters here vociferously condemning the use of SLAPP suits by Ezra Levant as much as they do against HRC. \r\n\r\nBoth are an afront to free speech and expression.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, sir.</p>
<p>Needless to say, I stand with you and the likes of Ron Good  and the Carbuncle who have been saying this for ages.</p>
<p>The answer to hate speech and the bile spewed by idiots like Styen and Levant is MORE speech, not less.</p>
<p>I heartily await some of the SDA commenters here vociferously condemning the use of SLAPP suits by Ezra Levant as much as they do against HRC. </p>
<p>Both are an afront to free speech and expression.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136528','Mike'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136528','Mike','Bravo, sir.\r\n\r\nNeedless to say, I stand with you and the likes of Ron Good  and the Carbuncle who have been saying this for ages.\r\n\r\nThe answer to hate speech and the bile spewed by idiots like Styen and Levant is MORE speech, not less.\r\n\r\nI heartily await some of the SDA commenters here vociferously condemning the use of SLAPP suits by Ezra Levant as much as they do against HRC. \r\n\r\nBoth are an afront to free speech and expression.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: cold canadian</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136526</link>
		<dc:creator>cold canadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136526</guid>
		<description>I disagree Dr. Dawg.  The government should not be in charge of legislating who&#039;s feelings are not allowed to be hurt.  You are arguing from the position that the system needs to be accessible for these types of offenses and I disagree.  If something criminally grevious is said, the matter is taken to the police and it costs the injured party nothing.  It is a crime.  If it is an attack of a more personal nature, then the injured party must decide if he or she wishes to respond with words or with lawyers.  It is a choice.  Particularly in this day and age, the ability to respond and debate is most accessible to anyone.  

The danger in giving the government the power to control debate is that power corrupts, and as you can see, the road to hell is paved with the good intentions of meddling bureaucrats.  As a society, we are developing the technology to provide instant information to the masses, we need to learn to grow up, act like adults and deal with the realities of what that means.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136526&#039;,&#039;cold canadian&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136526&#039;,&#039;cold canadian&#039;,&#039;I disagree Dr. Dawg.  The government should not be in charge of legislating who\&#039;s feelings are not allowed to be hurt.  You are arguing from the position that the system needs to be accessible for these types of offenses and I disagree.  If something criminally grevious is said, the matter is taken to the police and it costs the injured party nothing.  It is a crime.  If it is an attack of a more personal nature, then the injured party must decide if he or she wishes to respond with words or with lawyers.  It is a choice.  Particularly in this day and age, the ability to respond and debate is most accessible to anyone.  \r\n\r\nThe danger in giving the government the power to control debate is that power corrupts, and as you can see, the road to hell is paved with the good intentions of meddling bureaucrats.  As a society, we are developing the technology to provide instant information to the masses, we need to learn to grow up, act like adults and deal with the realities of what that means.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree Dr. Dawg.  The government should not be in charge of legislating who&#8217;s feelings are not allowed to be hurt.  You are arguing from the position that the system needs to be accessible for these types of offenses and I disagree.  If something criminally grevious is said, the matter is taken to the police and it costs the injured party nothing.  It is a crime.  If it is an attack of a more personal nature, then the injured party must decide if he or she wishes to respond with words or with lawyers.  It is a choice.  Particularly in this day and age, the ability to respond and debate is most accessible to anyone.  </p>
<p>The danger in giving the government the power to control debate is that power corrupts, and as you can see, the road to hell is paved with the good intentions of meddling bureaucrats.  As a society, we are developing the technology to provide instant information to the masses, we need to learn to grow up, act like adults and deal with the realities of what that means.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136526','cold canadian'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136526','cold canadian','I disagree Dr. Dawg.  The government should not be in charge of legislating who\'s feelings are not allowed to be hurt.  You are arguing from the position that the system needs to be accessible for these types of offenses and I disagree.  If something criminally grevious is said, the matter is taken to the police and it costs the injured party nothing.  It is a crime.  If it is an attack of a more personal nature, then the injured party must decide if he or she wishes to respond with words or with lawyers.  It is a choice.  Particularly in this day and age, the ability to respond and debate is most accessible to anyone.  \r\n\r\nThe danger in giving the government the power to control debate is that power corrupts, and as you can see, the road to hell is paved with the good intentions of meddling bureaucrats.  As a society, we are developing the technology to provide instant information to the masses, we need to learn to grow up, act like adults and deal with the realities of what that means.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Dr.Dawg</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136523</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Dawg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136523</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree. It&#039;s not all or nothing. Obviously the notion that we should stay awake 24/7 to ensure that nobody publishes hate, as defined in the Act, in a comment on our sites is ludicrous. It sets far too high a bar for all of us. We simply couldn&#039;t function. As reported, this is a totalitarian position, although the reportage has been so fraught that I would like to hear this from Blight&#039;s own mouth.

But on the other hand, like any other administrative tribunal, the Human Rights Commissions do two things: a) they perform the grunt-work that no court has the time or resources to undertake, while Commission decisions are properly reviewable by Canadian courts, and b) they are far more accessible to common folks like me than the formal court system. 

Can the system be abused? Certainly. What&#039;s called for is better screening mechanisms at the outset. The bar for banning Internet speech should rightly be a high one. But let&#039;s not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136523&#039;,&#039;Dr.Dawg&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136523&#039;,&#039;Dr.Dawg&#039;,&#039;I don\&#039;t agree. It\&#039;s not all or nothing. Obviously the notion that we should stay awake 24\/7 to ensure that nobody publishes hate, as defined in the Act, in a comment on our sites is ludicrous. It sets far too high a bar for all of us. We simply couldn\&#039;t function. As reported, this is a totalitarian position, although the reportage has been so fraught that I would like to hear this from Blight\&#039;s own mouth.\r\n\r\nBut on the other hand, like any other administrative tribunal, the Human Rights Commissions do two things: a) they perform the grunt-work that no court has the time or resources to undertake, while Commission decisions are properly reviewable by Canadian courts, and b) they are far more accessible to common folks like me than the formal court system. \r\n\r\nCan the system be abused? Certainly. What\&#039;s called for is better screening mechanisms at the outset. The bar for banning Internet speech should rightly be a high one. But let\&#039;s not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree. It&#8217;s not all or nothing. Obviously the notion that we should stay awake 24/7 to ensure that nobody publishes hate, as defined in the Act, in a comment on our sites is ludicrous. It sets far too high a bar for all of us. We simply couldn&#8217;t function. As reported, this is a totalitarian position, although the reportage has been so fraught that I would like to hear this from Blight&#8217;s own mouth.</p>
<p>But on the other hand, like any other administrative tribunal, the Human Rights Commissions do two things: a) they perform the grunt-work that no court has the time or resources to undertake, while Commission decisions are properly reviewable by Canadian courts, and b) they are far more accessible to common folks like me than the formal court system. </p>
<p>Can the system be abused? Certainly. What&#8217;s called for is better screening mechanisms at the outset. The bar for banning Internet speech should rightly be a high one. But let&#8217;s not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136523','Dr.Dawg'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136523','Dr.Dawg','I don\'t agree. It\'s not all or nothing. Obviously the notion that we should stay awake 24\/7 to ensure that nobody publishes hate, as defined in the Act, in a comment on our sites is ludicrous. It sets far too high a bar for all of us. We simply couldn\'t function. As reported, this is a totalitarian position, although the reportage has been so fraught that I would like to hear this from Blight\'s own mouth.\r\n\r\nBut on the other hand, like any other administrative tribunal, the Human Rights Commissions do two things: a) they perform the grunt-work that no court has the time or resources to undertake, while Commission decisions are properly reviewable by Canadian courts, and b) they are far more accessible to common folks like me than the formal court system. \r\n\r\nCan the system be abused? Certainly. What\'s called for is better screening mechanisms at the outset. The bar for banning Internet speech should rightly be a high one. But let\'s not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: stageleft</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136522</link>
		<dc:creator>stageleft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136522</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s no doubt about it Occam, Mikhail Bakunin had some good things to say.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136522&#039;,&#039;stageleft&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136522&#039;,&#039;stageleft&#039;,&#039;There\&#039;s no doubt about it Occam, Mikhail Bakunin had some good things to say.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s no doubt about it Occam, Mikhail Bakunin had some good things to say.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136522','stageleft'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136522','stageleft','There\'s no doubt about it Occam, Mikhail Bakunin had some good things to say.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Occam\'s Carbuncle</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2008/09/15/and-they-didnt-even-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-136521</link>
		<dc:creator>Occam\'s Carbuncle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/?p=4828#comment-136521</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re OK for a collectivist.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;136521&#039;,&#039;Occam\\&#039;s Carbuncle&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;136521&#039;,&#039;Occam\\&#039;s Carbuncle&#039;,&#039;You\&#039;re OK for a collectivist.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re OK for a collectivist.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('136521','Occam\\'s Carbuncle'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('136521','Occam\\'s Carbuncle','You\'re OK for a collectivist.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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