Their weakness has always been that they forget there’s a large audience of reasonable folks out there, watching this nonsense and thinking “What the fuck…?”

It’s not that they’ve forgotten this. They actually believe they are the reasonable folks and the majority out there think the same way they do.

Oh, definitely billions, Platty. I doubt that many folks in China, South America or Africa will be participating.

But it’s not a “pointless exercise in futility” (a lot of redundancy in that phrase, by the way - tighten it up).

Among its accomplishments, two stand out - it’s a well conceived, high priority focus for media coverage (which is the real point), and it’s assertion of a community.

Anyway, I plan to have every incandescent light bulb in my house lit tonight, so that when aliens peer down on the planet tonight between 8 and 9 PM, they will know at least one human didn’t succumb to group think.

I’m sorry - who’s pushing the concept of “group think”? Reality, Gerry. Gerry, reality. I’m not sure the two of you have met …

I’m going to unplug my digital clock, microwave, stove, computer UPS, and live off of an LED hand crank flashlight for an hour. I’ll juggle rocks for an hour for entertainment. Is that what those wonks at SDA were talking about in going back to the stone age?

There were some pretty dark areas in the neighbourhood tonight, one apartment building up the street went all but dark - my building didn’t fare too badly, but for some reason the west side of the building was a lot darker than the east side…. go figure ‘eh?

A friend of mine stopped by just before 8:00PM and we spent most of the time out on the balcony, drinking the thermos full of coffee I’d got ready for the hour, discussing what we had to do to get the bikes ready to go for the season, and planning a few summer rides for after he gets back from the states in a few weeks.

I made a point of being out on the balcony just before 9:00PM and saw quite a few lights appear out of the darkness as the hour ended so there was decent participation in the area. I did note that there were no exceedingly bright lights to be seen, no tire fires, no bonfires, no xmas lights, and I didn’t hear the muted sounds of truck engines idling, 2 stroke dirt bikes, or even lawn mowers, so I guess the “we’re gonna waste gas, pollute as much as possible, and see how high we can send out hydro bills, to show everyone how unreasonable those Gaia loving hippies are” crowd didn’t gain much traction here.

… I hope they don’t feel too bad about that, I guess folks ’round here just ain’t quite as reasonable as they are.

We refuse to be part of a Socialist/Fascist mentality that Leftists represent. We’re not part of your blind herd

Nice. My ex has a Ducati Superbike … or what my father calls a crotchrocket. I miss the bike more than him;-)

I’m more of a doubter than a denier. I also believe in energy conservation. But all this exercise does is give the posers an oppourtunity to feel self-rightious for doing the absoulute least thing they can do.

“Oooh look at me, I turned that lamp in the hallway off for an hour. I’m making a difference. I just care so much more than you do.”

And this web-site you go to sign up? All it says is that you plan to participate, there’s no way to measure how many people actually do it. Besides, I’m not going to be home tonight so my lights are off anyway. If I sign up do I count?

You want to cut back, CARBON TAX. Many Albertans fear them I don’t, and I work in the oil industry.

Steve V

Candace is so dense, she actually thinks this idea was presented to really stop global warming. It’s a symbolic gesture dimwit, nobody thinks it makes a concrete difference.

Steve is so dense, he actually thinks that symbolic gestures actually accomplish anything.

Winston: We refuse to be part of a Socialist/Fascist mentality that Leftists represent. We’re not part of your blind herd

Of course you’re not Winston, you’re one of the reasonable folks doing the reasonable thing and seeing how high you can drive your hydro bill by “turning every single light in my house on” - no irrational emotional reaction out of you you by gum, no-sir-re-bob, you got a level head on yer shoulders and yer not gonna do anything silly are you?

I’m not sure you guys should actually engage “Winston” - someone that catastrophically stupid could be contagious.

I am certainly a believer that we are causing global warming, but really what does Earth Hour do? Individuals contribute less than 25% of the ghg’s - sure I am all for us doing what we can to reduce our carbon imprint, but unless we get corporations and resource companies to start reducing their imprint, what we are doing is all for naught.

The makers of the film What a Way To Go did some work to find out how much the U.S.’s carbon footprint would be reduced if everyone did what Al Gore said we should do in An Inconvenient Truth. If every American did what he suggests, then the U.S. ghg emissions would be reduced by 20%. Good? Sure, but in a few years that decrease would be wiped out by other sectors and that number only assumes that all Americans would do so which isn’t the case.

The point being that sure, it’s great that we all do these things. I ride a bike. Have CFL’s etc… but until we deal with the real issue, which is the energy and ghg emissions spewed by manufacturers and resource extraction, it’s all for naught.

Causing? I’m not so sure we are “causing” climate change. By it’s very nature the climate has always been changing - go for “contributing unnecessarily to” and/or “compounding the problem” and I’m with ya.

Say what? You’ve been sparring with Patrick for months now.

Not moi - that’s alllll CC’s doing ;-) I just get in the occasional boot to the nethers …

“Not moi - that’s alllll CC’s doing ;-) ”

You know, that thread, the last long one with Patrick, made me feel - old. I simply could NOT see the point of exchanging utterly adolescent insults ad nauseam - even normally smart, funny people were cretinizing themselves to talk at great length to what was clearly an obsessive with some form of cognitive disorder and undescended testicles.

Excuse me now, please, I’m off to chat with Canadian Sentinel.

Excuse me now, please, I’m off to chat with Canadian Sentinel.

So sayeth the pot to the kettle … you are the funny, Balby.

“Again, that’s great, but it really doesn’t mean much in the long run.”

Instilling a sense of conservation and of personal responsibility among our young people does do something. Maybe not in the short run but certainly in the long run. It helps create a climate-conscious, energy-conscious population. That paves the way for future regulations that will affect those industrial and government polluters.

If we. as individuals, refuse to change our own wasteful habits, how can we demand that industry and government change theirs? If we, as individuals, adopt Earth-friendly attitudes, we will elect legislators who reflect our concerns.

Personal action doesn’t put us into denial. It makes us aware of the problem and it tells that remedial actions do have some effect. The next step is to carry that awareness into political action.

Live green? Vote Green!

I continue to promote conservation and energy-efficiency for government. I blogged on this topic about a year ago. While that post was aimed at the Ontario government, it applies to all provinces and the federal government, too.

Here’s a little from that old post:

1. The government purchases hundreds of vehicles for various ministry operations, policing, etc. Does the government have a procurement policy that requires public funds be spent on fuel efficient and/or hybrid vehicles?

2. Buildings are one of the biggest contributors to GHG emissions. Has the government embarked on an energy audit program for all Ontario’s publicly owned buildings?

3. Ontario collects a hefty 8% sales tax. What is Ontario doing by way of tax incentives to encourage reduced energy use?

4. Government properties like the grounds of public buildings and parks require lawn-cutting and landscape maintenance. What measures have been taken to ensure that eco-friendly methods are employed with regard to gasoline powered equipment, weed and pest control, planting of native species, etc.?

Governments act when the voters demand action. By educating and instructing our youth, we are shaping a new generation that will, hopefully, demand real action from government.

JB

Instilling a sense of conservation and of personal responsibility among our young people does do something. Maybe not in the short run but certainly in the long run. It helps create a climate-conscious, energy-conscious population. That paves the way for future regulations that will affect those industrial and government polluters.

I have no problem agreeing it does something, just not nearly enough. Our way of life as it stands is totally unsustainable. It will someday, sooner rather than later, crash. Yes personal responsibility is great and all, but we need much more fundamental changes to the way we live. Green capitalism will not save us but many environmentalists seem to think so. This belief is a state of denial because it ignores the much larger problems we face.

If we. as individuals, refuse to change our own wasteful habits, how can we demand that industry and government change theirs? If we, as individuals, adopt Earth-friendly attitudes, we will elect legislators who reflect our concerns.

As I said earlier, I try to minimize my impact as much as possible. I agree that all should. But it isn’t nearly enough. And industry will never change its ways, nor will government because they are based upon the destruction of the environment in the name of profit. Until we stop seeing nature as a resource, nothing will ever change. Hence why me riding my bike in the big picture isn’t really much of anything.

Governments act when the voters demand action. By educating and instructing our youth, we are shaping a new generation that will, hopefully, demand real action from government.

But what are we teaching them JB? That if they use CFL’s that everything will be OK? If we were really teaching them we would be teaching them to grow their own food, forage, and how to defend themselves from marauding invaders.

And I disagree about government. They will do the minimum, just as industry will to address these problems. Look at Alberta and Saskatchewan with oil sands development. Is there a more toxic industry in the world right now? And they are moving ahead full bore, despite a growing sense in both provinces that these things need the brakes put on them. Our government is a government of business. Has been for a long time.

Peter, I don’t think you’re thinking about the dynamics of social change. Your attitude is a bit reminiscent of the Peoples Front of Judea - “Our first goal is the complete overthrow of the Roman Empire. Agreed?”

Well, I don’t know the story, but if the people of Judea were dying as a result of the Roman Empire, that would be my first and only goal. When people are dying, wouldn’t that be yours? What I see you saying is - “We’re getting killed by these people, but rather than overthrow them, let’s just try for the time being to only allow them to kill 4.5 out of 5 of us.”

My argument is that they don’t go nearly far enough and in some cases leads to a further entrenchment of the denial of the problem. Teaching kids that if they want a liveable world all they need to do is turn off the lights when the leave the house or drive a hybrid makes them think that this will solve our problems. It won’t. Not even close.

- do you think MORE people or FEWER people have MORE information or LESS information on climate change, as a result of Earth Hour promotion, coverage and discussions?

People probably have a modicum of people have a modicum of more information. But again, despite people having a little more information, they now walk away believing that if they turn the lights off an hour a day then we’ll all be saved.

do you think attitudes toward climate change awareness have been positively or negatively impacted as a result of Earth Hour promotion, discussion and activities?

I would say negatively because what we are telling people as a result of a promotion like this is that they can save the world thru very minor personal changes. That’s simply not true. In George Monbiot’s Heat, he argues that we would need a 90% reduction in our total ghg production. My question would be, what was the effect in terms of decreased ghg production of something like Earth Hour and how many of these people will continue the practice going forward?

do you think Earth Hour will have ANY impact on behaviours?

Sure, some people may decide to turn off their lights next time they leave the house. Great. And I don’t mean that sarcastically, but given the reality of the situation and what we need to do and how quickly it needs to come, it is just a tiny drop in the bucket.

I think there are probably many who now relax, thinking they’ve done their bit. I think there are many more who now have more information, a greater knowledge of strategies to save energy, and increased likelihood of doing so in future.

I would argue that it will be a lot more the former than the latter.

My point is that the transformation of our economy and culture is going to be incremental, not revolutionary. If a measure inches us a long the way, it’s a good thing.

And that’s fine. But given the state of the emergency we are in, I just don’t see us getting there in time thru this method. I also think, again, that while Earth Hour does a few positive things, I think for too many people it will ingrain in them that these little things we do are all we need to do.

I was thinking of an analogy using puppies and toilet training. When I was younger and we got our puppy we trained it to go to the bathroom in the house on paper. Then we trained it that this was wrong and to go outside after a while. Today, dog trainers say this is one of the worst things you can do to a puppy - you are teaching it that a behaviour is fine and then after a while, it’s wrong. It seems to me that we’re training people to go to the bathroom in the house on paper when we need them to go outside. Except in our situation, there is about 46 more steps in between paper training and going outside. I love analogies!

Fortunately, I have never heard anyone make that foolish assertion.

Al Gore does it in his movie. He argues that if we make some personal changes, we’ll be OK. In his movie, does he attack the corporate culture and cultural mindset that allows us to treat the world like a resource rather than a biosphere? I don’t think people come right out and say, hey, this is all you have to do, but the assumption is inherent to it. Buy a hybrid. Save the planet. Use a CFL. Bike to work. Again, all great things, but in the big picture, with the growing industrialization of third world countries and continued industrial growth of first world countries, it all seems for naught.

Well, then, your first step should continue to be the immediate overthrow of the Roman Empire. Let me know how that goes for you. The rest of us will work incrementally.

My goal is to save as many species and as much land and in the process, as many humans as we can. Our culture/civilization is making this task harder and harder as more land is destroyed and more species extinct and as our population continues to burgeon and teeter on the edge of collapse. What we need are people out there saving species, saving landbases, and others who are working to overthrow the whole damn thing.

And I think you’re misunderstanding me a bit perhaps (or maybe not). I do think that in the short term these types of events do have a minimal impact, but while we do these things, on a global scale things just get worse. While we are holding people’s hands and telling them, just come this way a little bit, shut off your lights, everything will be OK, but things aren’t OK. If you want to keep encouraging people to do these things, hey, that’s great. But what happens when you break the news to them that what they really need to do is drastically alter their lives, as Monbiot and many others suggest? I can hear the cry now - I thought we just had to turn off our lights and drive a hybrid. Why didn’t anyone tell me?

Another analogy - the babies in the river. A bunch of women are down by a river washing clothes and a baby in a basket floats by. A woman runs out to save the baby. Then another floats by and another and another. And these women are rushing out to the water to save them. Then one women, starts to walk away and they all scream “where are you going?” And she says, to stop the person upstream from throwing them in.

We need people doing both. I just don’t see where Earth Hour and other like minded things fit in with this.

I certainly will. I’m currently working with the Nunavut Inuit Wildlife Secretariat, which is the advisory body assisting the Government of Nunavut and the Widldlife Management Board with its harvesting quotas. You’ll no doubt be relieved to hear that the population in the Davis Strait is rising, as predicted by Inuit, and not falling, as predicted by CWS.

CWS, Peter. Canadian Wildlife Service. The agency which implements the Species at Risk Act in Canada.

Too many unexamined clichés in there to take seriously, Nasty. All my points were made above.

Not “meaningless” - see above.

And your assumption that participants limit their action to that participation and then drive away in lincolns is just another exhausted cliché.