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	<title>Comments on: When You Become What You&#8217;re Fighting Against</title>
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		<title>By: Dodos</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/comment-page-1/#comment-116240</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 01:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/#comment-116240</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Canajun silence speaks volumes, too. &lt;/i&gt;

No, no, no. We here in the blogosphere just write things about stuff like that. It&#039;s up to others to act.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;116240&#039;,&#039;Dodos&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;116240&#039;,&#039;Dodos&#039;,&#039;&lt;i&gt; Canajun silence speaks volumes, too. &lt;\/i&gt;\r\n\r\nNo, no, no. We here in the blogosphere just write things about stuff like that. It\&#039;s up to others to act.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Canajun silence speaks volumes, too. </i></p>
<p>No, no, no. We here in the blogosphere just write things about stuff like that. It&#8217;s up to others to act.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('116240','Dodos'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('116240','Dodos','&lt;i&gt; Canajun silence speaks volumes, too. &lt;\/i&gt;\r\n\r\nNo, no, no. We here in the blogosphere just write things about stuff like that. It\'s up to others to act.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: JimBobby</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/comment-page-1/#comment-116177</link>
		<dc:creator>JimBobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/#comment-116177</guid>
		<description>I ain&#039;t so sure there was an anti-torture ticket to vote for in those mid-terms. I reckon Hillary&#039;s leading Dem and I don&#039;t think she&#039;s too much different than Dubya. A lotta Merkan want outta EyeRack but still wanna let Jack Bauer cut the fingers off anybuddy who might hurt Merka.

What about us Canajuns? Where was the marchin&#039; in the streets when our PM an&#039; his pet goat lied all over themselves on the detainee issue? How&#039;s that Afghan Human Rights agency doin&#039; these days? Anybuddy wonderin&#039;?

Canajun silence speaks volumes, too.

JB&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;116177&#039;,&#039;JimBobby&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;116177&#039;,&#039;JimBobby&#039;,&#039;I ain\&#039;t so sure there was an anti-torture ticket to vote for in those mid-terms. I reckon Hillary\&#039;s leading Dem and I don\&#039;t think she\&#039;s too much different than Dubya. A lotta Merkan want outta EyeRack but still wanna let Jack Bauer cut the fingers off anybuddy who might hurt Merka.\r\n\r\nWhat about us Canajuns? Where was the marchin\&#039; in the streets when our PM an\&#039; his pet goat lied all over themselves on the detainee issue? How\&#039;s that Afghan Human Rights agency doin\&#039; these days? Anybuddy wonderin\&#039;?\r\n\r\nCanajun silence speaks volumes, too.\r\n\r\nJB&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ain&#8217;t so sure there was an anti-torture ticket to vote for in those mid-terms. I reckon Hillary&#8217;s leading Dem and I don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s too much different than Dubya. A lotta Merkan want outta EyeRack but still wanna let Jack Bauer cut the fingers off anybuddy who might hurt Merka.</p>
<p>What about us Canajuns? Where was the marchin&#8217; in the streets when our PM an&#8217; his pet goat lied all over themselves on the detainee issue? How&#8217;s that Afghan Human Rights agency doin&#8217; these days? Anybuddy wonderin&#8217;?</p>
<p>Canajun silence speaks volumes, too.</p>
<p>JB
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('116177','JimBobby'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('116177','JimBobby','I ain\'t so sure there was an anti-torture ticket to vote for in those mid-terms. I reckon Hillary\'s leading Dem and I don\'t think she\'s too much different than Dubya. A lotta Merkan want outta EyeRack but still wanna let Jack Bauer cut the fingers off anybuddy who might hurt Merka.\r\n\r\nWhat about us Canajuns? Where was the marchin\' in the streets when our PM an\' his pet goat lied all over themselves on the detainee issue? How\'s that Afghan Human Rights agency doin\' these days? Anybuddy wonderin\'?\r\n\r\nCanajun silence speaks volumes, too.\r\n\r\nJB'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: stageleft</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/comment-page-1/#comment-116166</link>
		<dc:creator>stageleft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/#comment-116166</guid>
		<description>The differences between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum are exactly what the electorate have decided they are willing to accept.

If Americans, as a nation, were, for example, unwilling to accept their president ordering that people be tortured they would have made that known with far louder voices than they did during their mid-terms wouldn&#039;t they?

The fact of the matter is that they did not, and that should speak volumes.

What we did see was a national minimization of those acts, a national shrugging of shoulders at those acts, a national rationalization of those acts, and national acceptance of those acts - that also speaks volumes about the nature of what America has become.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;116166&#039;,&#039;stageleft&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;116166&#039;,&#039;stageleft&#039;,&#039;The differences between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum are exactly what the electorate have decided they are willing to accept.\r\n\r\nIf Americans, as a nation, were, for example, unwilling to accept their president ordering that people be tortured they would have made that known with far louder voices than they did during their mid-terms wouldn\&#039;t they?\r\n\r\nThe fact of the matter is that they did not, and that should speak volumes.\r\n\r\nWhat we did see was a national minimization of those acts, a national shrugging of shoulders at those acts, a national rationalization of those acts, and national acceptance of those acts - that also speaks volumes about the nature of what America has become.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The differences between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum are exactly what the electorate have decided they are willing to accept.</p>
<p>If Americans, as a nation, were, for example, unwilling to accept their president ordering that people be tortured they would have made that known with far louder voices than they did during their mid-terms wouldn&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that they did not, and that should speak volumes.</p>
<p>What we did see was a national minimization of those acts, a national shrugging of shoulders at those acts, a national rationalization of those acts, and national acceptance of those acts &#8211; that also speaks volumes about the nature of what America has become.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('116166','stageleft'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('116166','stageleft','The differences between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum are exactly what the electorate have decided they are willing to accept.\r\n\r\nIf Americans, as a nation, were, for example, unwilling to accept their president ordering that people be tortured they would have made that known with far louder voices than they did during their mid-terms wouldn\'t they?\r\n\r\nThe fact of the matter is that they did not, and that should speak volumes.\r\n\r\nWhat we did see was a national minimization of those acts, a national shrugging of shoulders at those acts, a national rationalization of those acts, and national acceptance of those acts - that also speaks volumes about the nature of what America has become.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Throbbin</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/comment-page-1/#comment-116149</link>
		<dc:creator>Throbbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/#comment-116149</guid>
		<description>I agree with Mentarch - while the distinction between tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee may not be as stark as we would like it to be, the fact is that voters still elected someone who promotoes torture, regardless of the beaucratic labels.

To say people are just being manipulated into voting for X and not Y ignores the fact that half of America voted for Y in the last Presidential election.

Countries that do not condone torture all deal with a reactionary political element in their own elections - but the populace knows better than to elect them.  Americans - not so much - everyone is too busy watching American Idol (which is blatant blasphemy - which commandment is that again?).&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;116149&#039;,&#039;Throbbin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;116149&#039;,&#039;Throbbin&#039;,&#039;I agree with Mentarch - while the distinction between tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee may not be as stark as we would like it to be, the fact is that voters still elected someone who promotoes torture, regardless of the beaucratic labels.\r\n\r\nTo say people are just being manipulated into voting for X and not Y ignores the fact that half of America voted for Y in the last Presidential election.\r\n\r\nCountries that do not condone torture all deal with a reactionary political element in their own elections - but the populace knows better than to elect them.  Americans - not so much - everyone is too busy watching American Idol (which is blatant blasphemy - which commandment is that again?).&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mentarch &#8211; while the distinction between tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee may not be as stark as we would like it to be, the fact is that voters still elected someone who promotoes torture, regardless of the beaucratic labels.</p>
<p>To say people are just being manipulated into voting for X and not Y ignores the fact that half of America voted for Y in the last Presidential election.</p>
<p>Countries that do not condone torture all deal with a reactionary political element in their own elections &#8211; but the populace knows better than to elect them.  Americans &#8211; not so much &#8211; everyone is too busy watching American Idol (which is blatant blasphemy &#8211; which commandment is that again?).
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('116149','Throbbin'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('116149','Throbbin','I agree with Mentarch - while the distinction between tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee may not be as stark as we would like it to be, the fact is that voters still elected someone who promotoes torture, regardless of the beaucratic labels.\r\n\r\nTo say people are just being manipulated into voting for X and not Y ignores the fact that half of America voted for Y in the last Presidential election.\r\n\r\nCountries that do not condone torture all deal with a reactionary political element in their own elections - but the populace knows better than to elect them.  Americans - not so much - everyone is too busy watching American Idol (which is blatant blasphemy - which commandment is that again?).'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: JimBobby</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/comment-page-1/#comment-116130</link>
		<dc:creator>JimBobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/#comment-116130</guid>
		<description>&quot;...the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.&quot;

I reckon the voters can take some blame. Primary blame? I don&#039;t buy it.

The established parties have money, power, influence and history to continue propelling them into undeserved office. The hapless voter gets a choice between tweedle-dum an&#039; tweedle-dee. Fringe parties remain on the fringe largely due to inertia and the inability of smaller, grassroots campaigns to raise the millions needed to get elected in western &quot;democracies.&quot; 

Jingoism, ethnocentrism, politico-religious fervor, blatant disinformation campaigns by those in power, corruption, war-profiteering, fear-mongering, stifling of dissent, witch-hunts and a general dumbing down of the electorate are the tactics used by the powerful to stay in power.  TV ads, billboards, bumper stickers, paid pundits and push polls all cost money and the bigass parties and their bigass backers can afford to buy the votes they need. 

BTW, Sullivan oughta know about Godwin&#039;s Law. Comparing anything or anybody to Nazis is verboten. 

JB&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;116130&#039;,&#039;JimBobby&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;116130&#039;,&#039;JimBobby&#039;,&#039;\&quot;...the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.\&quot;\r\n\r\nI reckon the voters can take some blame. Primary blame? I don\&#039;t buy it.\r\n\r\nThe established parties have money, power, influence and history to continue propelling them into undeserved office. The hapless voter gets a choice between tweedle-dum an\&#039; tweedle-dee. Fringe parties remain on the fringe largely due to inertia and the inability of smaller, grassroots campaigns to raise the millions needed to get elected in western \&quot;democracies.\&quot; \r\n\r\nJingoism, ethnocentrism, politico-religious fervor, blatant disinformation campaigns by those in power, corruption, war-profiteering, fear-mongering, stifling of dissent, witch-hunts and a general dumbing down of the electorate are the tactics used by the powerful to stay in power.  TV ads, billboards, bumper stickers, paid pundits and push polls all cost money and the bigass parties and their bigass backers can afford to buy the votes they need. \r\n\r\nBTW, Sullivan oughta know about Godwin\&#039;s Law. Comparing anything or anybody to Nazis is verboten. \r\n\r\nJB&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.&#8221;</p>
<p>I reckon the voters can take some blame. Primary blame? I don&#8217;t buy it.</p>
<p>The established parties have money, power, influence and history to continue propelling them into undeserved office. The hapless voter gets a choice between tweedle-dum an&#8217; tweedle-dee. Fringe parties remain on the fringe largely due to inertia and the inability of smaller, grassroots campaigns to raise the millions needed to get elected in western &#8220;democracies.&#8221; </p>
<p>Jingoism, ethnocentrism, politico-religious fervor, blatant disinformation campaigns by those in power, corruption, war-profiteering, fear-mongering, stifling of dissent, witch-hunts and a general dumbing down of the electorate are the tactics used by the powerful to stay in power.  TV ads, billboards, bumper stickers, paid pundits and push polls all cost money and the bigass parties and their bigass backers can afford to buy the votes they need. </p>
<p>BTW, Sullivan oughta know about Godwin&#8217;s Law. Comparing anything or anybody to Nazis is verboten. </p>
<p>JB
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('116130','JimBobby'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('116130','JimBobby','\&quot;...the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.\&quot;\r\n\r\nI reckon the voters can take some blame. Primary blame? I don\'t buy it.\r\n\r\nThe established parties have money, power, influence and history to continue propelling them into undeserved office. The hapless voter gets a choice between tweedle-dum an\' tweedle-dee. Fringe parties remain on the fringe largely due to inertia and the inability of smaller, grassroots campaigns to raise the millions needed to get elected in western \&quot;democracies.\&quot; \r\n\r\nJingoism, ethnocentrism, politico-religious fervor, blatant disinformation campaigns by those in power, corruption, war-profiteering, fear-mongering, stifling of dissent, witch-hunts and a general dumbing down of the electorate are the tactics used by the powerful to stay in power.  TV ads, billboards, bumper stickers, paid pundits and push polls all cost money and the bigass parties and their bigass backers can afford to buy the votes they need. \r\n\r\nBTW, Sullivan oughta know about Godwin\'s Law. Comparing anything or anybody to Nazis is verboten. \r\n\r\nJB'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Mentarch</title>
		<link>http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/comment-page-1/#comment-116063</link>
		<dc:creator>Mentarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 04:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stageleft.info/2007/06/04/when-you-become-what-youre-fighting-against/#comment-116063</guid>
		<description>The U.S.A. has essentially become &lt;a href=&quot;http://pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com/2007/05/whither-goest-thou-america.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;no better than any other barbarous, uncivilized rogue-like regime&lt;/a&gt;.

Folks can blame the Bush administration, the center-right democrats, the lobbyists, the fundamentalists, et al., for such a dismal state of affairs - but the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com/2007/05/politics-of-fear-and-ignorance-alive.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mea culpa, mea culpa, vox populi&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;116063&#039;,&#039;Mentarch&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;116063&#039;,&#039;Mentarch&#039;,&#039;The U.S.A. has essentially become &lt;a href=\&quot;http:\/\/pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com\/2007\/05\/whither-goest-thou-america.html\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;no better than any other barbarous, uncivilized rogue-like regime&lt;\/a&gt;.\r\n\r\nFolks can blame the Bush administration, the center-right democrats, the lobbyists, the fundamentalists, et al., for such a dismal state of affairs - but the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.\r\n\r\n&lt;a href=\&quot;http:\/\/pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com\/2007\/05\/politics-of-fear-and-ignorance-alive.html\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;Mea culpa, mea culpa, vox populi&lt;\/a&gt;.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The U.S.A. has essentially become <a href="http://pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com/2007/05/whither-goest-thou-america.html" rel="nofollow">no better than any other barbarous, uncivilized rogue-like regime</a>.</p>
<p>Folks can blame the Bush administration, the center-right democrats, the lobbyists, the fundamentalists, et al., for such a dismal state of affairs &#8211; but the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.</p>
<p><a href="http://pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com/2007/05/politics-of-fear-and-ignorance-alive.html" rel="nofollow">Mea culpa, mea culpa, vox populi</a>.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('116063','Mentarch'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('116063','Mentarch','The U.S.A. has essentially become &lt;a href=\&quot;http:\/\/pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com\/2007\/05\/whither-goest-thou-america.html\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;no better than any other barbarous, uncivilized rogue-like regime&lt;\/a&gt;.\r\n\r\nFolks can blame the Bush administration, the center-right democrats, the lobbyists, the fundamentalists, et al., for such a dismal state of affairs - but the hurtful truth remains that, in the end, the blame lies primarily with the voters themselves.\r\n\r\n&lt;a href=\&quot;http:\/\/pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com\/2007\/05\/politics-of-fear-and-ignorance-alive.html\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot;&gt;Mea culpa, mea culpa, vox populi&lt;\/a&gt;.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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