Comments on: Two Seperate Questions Entirely http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:43:26 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: balbulican http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/comment-page-1/#comment-5963 balbulican Thu, 07 Jul 2005 01:09:55 +0000 http://www.stageleft.info/archives/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/#comment-5963 Their goals are to promote discussion among Catholics about changes to the Church's policy on the ordination of women, and hopefully to initiate a long term process to change that policy. This mock ordination is achieving the first goal already. I'm really not sure what isn't clear about that. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5963','balbulican'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5963','balbulican','Their goals are to promote discussion among Catholics about changes to the Church\'s policy on the ordination of women, and hopefully to initiate a long term process to change that policy.\r\n\r\nThis mock ordination is achieving the first goal already. \r\n\r\nI\'m really not sure what isn\'t clear about that. \r\n\r\n'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Their goals are to promote discussion among Catholics about changes to the Church’s policy on the ordination of women, and hopefully to initiate a long term process to change that policy.

This mock ordination is achieving the first goal already.

I’m really not sure what isn’t clear about that.

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]]> By: stageleft http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/comment-page-1/#comment-5962 stageleft Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:33:22 +0000 http://www.stageleft.info/archives/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/#comment-5962 At the risk of seeming to drag this out how does claiming that you are something that you are not become protest?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5962','stageleft'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5962','stageleft','At the risk of seeming to drag this out how does claiming that you are something that you are not become protest?'); return false;">Quote</a></div> At the risk of seeming to drag this out how does claiming that you are something that you are not become protest?
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]]> By: balbulican http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/comment-page-1/#comment-5959 balbulican Wed, 06 Jul 2005 17:07:03 +0000 http://www.stageleft.info/archives/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/#comment-5959 A profession is about skills, knowledge, and certification. Given that women are serving at the highest levels of ministry in other Christian churches, I don't think anyone doubts that women could master the body of skills and knowledge associated with the Catholic priesthood. Which leaves certification. And the Church has said: Sorry, girls...no balls, no ordination. Nope. They're not priests. And as I said above, I'm quite sure they know that. The answer to your questions is: yes, it IS protest. A pretty effective one, too, given that at least two of my favourite bloggers are now disseminating news about the issue to their readership.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5959','balbulican'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5959','balbulican',' A profession is about skills, knowledge, and certification. Given that women are serving at the highest levels of ministry in other Christian churches, I don\'t think anyone doubts that women could master the body of skills and knowledge associated with the Catholic priesthood. \r\n\r\nWhich leaves certification. And the Church has said: Sorry, girls...no balls, no ordination. Nope. They\'re not priests. And as I said above, I\'m quite sure they know that. The answer to your questions is: yes, it IS protest. A pretty effective one, too, given that at least two of my favourite bloggers are now disseminating news about the issue to their readership.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> A profession is about skills, knowledge, and certification. Given that women are serving at the highest levels of ministry in other Christian churches, I don’t think anyone doubts that women could master the body of skills and knowledge associated with the Catholic priesthood.

Which leaves certification. And the Church has said: Sorry, girls…no balls, no ordination. Nope. They’re not priests. And as I said above, I’m quite sure they know that. The answer to your questions is: yes, it IS protest. A pretty effective one, too, given that at least two of my favourite bloggers are now disseminating news about the issue to their readership.

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]]> By: stageleft http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/comment-page-1/#comment-5958 stageleft Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:54:15 +0000 http://www.stageleft.info/archives/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/#comment-5958 A Catholic priest, like a doctor, or a lawyer, or an mechanic, is supposed to be a trained professional. I know, for example, people who are really good with small engines - they can take them apart, find out what's wrong with them, sometimes fabricate the necessary parts (out of the strangest of things) to make the engine run, put it all back together, and the thing will run like a top... but as good as they are if they were to hang a sign outside their garage that said mechanic would that make them one? Protesting against injustice and inequity is great, but is calling yourself something you ain't protest? Is saying you are something that you are not a form of protest? Or is a rose by any other name not really a rose? Politics and religion do seem to result in strange bed fellows don't they?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5958','stageleft'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5958','stageleft','A Catholic priest, like a doctor, or a lawyer, or an mechanic, is supposed to be a trained professional. I know, for example, people who are really good with small engines - they can take them apart, find out what\'s wrong with them, sometimes fabricate the necessary parts (out of the strangest of things) to make the engine run, put it all back together, and the thing will run like a top... but as good as they are if they were to hang a sign outside their garage that said mechanic would that make them one?\r\n\r\nProtesting against injustice and inequity is great, but is calling yourself something you ain\'t protest? Is saying you are something that you are not a form of protest? Or is a rose by any other name not really a rose?\r\n\r\nPolitics and religion do seem to result in strange bed fellows don\'t they?'); return false;">Quote</a></div> A Catholic priest, like a doctor, or a lawyer, or an mechanic, is supposed to be a trained professional. I know, for example, people who are really good with small engines – they can take them apart, find out what’s wrong with them, sometimes fabricate the necessary parts (out of the strangest of things) to make the engine run, put it all back together, and the thing will run like a top… but as good as they are if they were to hang a sign outside their garage that said mechanic would that make them one?

Protesting against injustice and inequity is great, but is calling yourself something you ain’t protest? Is saying you are something that you are not a form of protest? Or is a rose by any other name not really a rose?

Politics and religion do seem to result in strange bed fellows don’t they?

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]]> By: MikeM http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/comment-page-1/#comment-5956 MikeM Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:25:15 +0000 http://www.stageleft.info/archives/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/#comment-5956 It will be interesting to see if they try to practise as Priest(esses). Balb nails it really, this act is more for show than anything. Should they start performing mass or administering the sacraments then we will be closer to the scenario that you describe SL.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5956','MikeM'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5956','MikeM','It will be interesting to see if they try to practise as Priest(esses). Balb nails it really, this act is more for show than anything. Should they start performing mass or administering the sacraments then we will be closer to the scenario that you describe SL.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> It will be interesting to see if they try to practise as Priest(esses). Balb nails it really, this act is more for show than anything. Should they start performing mass or administering the sacraments then we will be closer to the scenario that you describe SL.
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]]> By: balbulican http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/comment-page-1/#comment-5955 balbulican Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:51:52 +0000 http://www.stageleft.info/archives/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/#comment-5955 Much as it pains me, I have to disagress with my distinguished colleagues, Messrs. Stateleft and Vinny. Partly. I agree that, having gone through this ceremony, these women will not be priests of the Roman Catholic Church. Religions, as my colleagues have pointed out, have the right to define terms of reference for their memebership. However, I don't think these women are under any illusions that ordination will actually make them priests. This is an act of political theatre. The British suffragettes who showed up at polling stations demanding to register didn't really expect to be allowed to vote. The gay activists in the seventies who applied for marriage licenses didn't expect to receive them, and those who found gay clerics willing to perform the ceremony didn't really expect the law or society to recognize their marriage. These were public gestures, intended to draw public and media attention to a perceived inequity. That's what these women are actually doing: hoping people will scratch their heads, and say "Why not?" <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5955','balbulican'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5955','balbulican','Much as it pains me, I have to disagress with my distinguished colleagues, Messrs. Stateleft and Vinny. Partly.\r\n\r\nI agree that, having gone through this ceremony, these women will not be priests of the Roman Catholic Church. Religions, as my colleagues have pointed out, have the right to define terms of reference for their memebership.\r\n\r\nHowever, I don\'t think these women are under any illusions that ordination will actually make them priests. This is an act of political theatre. \r\n\r\nThe British suffragettes who showed up at polling stations demanding to register didn\'t really expect to be allowed to vote. The gay activists in the seventies who applied for marriage licenses didn\'t expect to receive them, and those who found gay clerics willing to perform the ceremony didn\'t really expect the law or society to recognize their marriage. These were public gestures, intended to draw public and media attention to a perceived inequity. \r\n\r\nThat\'s what these women are actually doing: hoping people will scratch their heads, and say \"Why not?\" '); return false;">Quote</a></div> Much as it pains me, I have to disagress with my distinguished colleagues, Messrs. Stateleft and Vinny. Partly.

I agree that, having gone through this ceremony, these women will not be priests of the Roman Catholic Church. Religions, as my colleagues have pointed out, have the right to define terms of reference for their memebership.

However, I don’t think these women are under any illusions that ordination will actually make them priests. This is an act of political theatre.

The British suffragettes who showed up at polling stations demanding to register didn’t really expect to be allowed to vote. The gay activists in the seventies who applied for marriage licenses didn’t expect to receive them, and those who found gay clerics willing to perform the ceremony didn’t really expect the law or society to recognize their marriage. These were public gestures, intended to draw public and media attention to a perceived inequity.

That’s what these women are actually doing: hoping people will scratch their heads, and say “Why not?”

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]]> By: Vinny http://www.stageleft.info/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/comment-page-1/#comment-5952 Vinny Wed, 06 Jul 2005 03:01:14 +0000 http://www.stageleft.info/archives/2005/07/05/two-seperate-questions-entirely/#comment-5952 Amen, Brother. Very well-said.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5952','Vinny'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5952','Vinny','Amen, Brother.\r\n\r\nVery well-said.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Amen, Brother.

Very well-said.

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